(Ive tried to be as accurate as possible but may have got some things wrong… so feel free to correct)
refused to revert GOATS nerfs, took months to adjust the overnerfed heroes. Lucio speedboost buff took 3 months for example. All adjustments were made to prevent stacked tank/support comps and were not necessary after 222 was implemented imo.
took 5 months just to begin nerfing mei, reaper and hanzo. 3 clearly overbuffed tank busters.
added 1 single tank… One that was designed extremely bad imo. Spammable shield, cooldowns and high damage synergised perfectly with Orisa and caused the most problematic and stale meta since GOATS.
nerfed all shields in attempt to kill double barrier but didnt tone down damage creep.
nerfed Orisa 7 times and she currently remains trash and completely reliant on Sigma.
nerfed Hammond twice dispite being balanced before. Now widely considered as a throw pick.
buffed Winston once, didn’t affect his win/pick rate and hes still useless in uncoordinated play. 47% win rate in last 6 months. Victim of damage creep, cc creep and high sustain.
Let Dva remain irrelevant since gutting her damage output and defense matrix over a year ago. Mobility buff made her slightly more impactful but was toned down.
Gave zero changes to Zen to improve viability
nerfed Baptiste 5 times. Now struggles.
Gave Mercy 1 tiny buff but ignored issue of her being a slave pocket healer thats held back by rez. Maybe theyre happy with that direction…
over-buffed ashe and pharah. Pharah needed a rework to be effective without mercy but instead she is back to being ok on PC and oppresive on console. 61.68% win rate in PS4 GM this month btw.
Released a fun/engaging dps instead of a new healer or tank, she also is high mobility and has a very effective tankbuster beam.
added hero bans instead of improving balance which gave tanks and healers even less choice in already limited roles.
tested 1-3-2 and considered lowering overall synergy, team oriented gameplay and completely reworking tanks in pursuit of lowering dps que times instead of the many other viable options that dont include such drastic actions
222 wasnt a failure.
Imo the implementation and the decision making post role que have completely let it down which has resulted in ques getting worse instead of better.
What we needed/need in the future(OW2):
In my personal opinion:
better more efficient balancing. Quicker action to stabalize roles as best as possible when pick rates/win rates are drastically uneven to avoid stale metas trickling down the ladder.
scale back all damage and healing
more enaging and fun tanks. Specifically more off-tanks with damage negation/peel abilites. Off tanks are arguably more fun than main tanks for the majority of people and more peeling options could make shield presence less demanding especially if all damage is toned down. Having just Dva and Zarya since launch sucks.
more healers
role based tutorials or/and random loading-screen tips. Mainly for tank as alot of the community clearly dont understand how to effectively play the role thus dont enjoy it.
better incentives to play other roles like a priority que or end of season rewards. A lootbox aint it
increase feelgood factor of tank (and support). Reward player for taking space, blocking x damage, peeling, clutch heals/utility etc.
potentially move Mei to tank and Sombra/Sym to support (with changes obviously). Credit to robotwizard.
…Just a genuine attempt to alleviate dps que times and get people onto different roles.
222 imo remains the best change ever implemented to Overwatch. DPS Que times CAN be alleviated but no where near enough is currently being done. The release of Echo has solidified it for me that the devs have no intentions of attempting to adress the lack of tank players and excessive DPS que times right now… HOPEFULLY Ow2 will deliver in a big way but at this point im not holding my breath. pls surprise me Blizzard.
I skimmed through your post. What you say is kinda conflicting. You ask for GOATS nerfs to be reverted and then claim all the nerfs to heroes like Orisa and shields were too much, etc. Tanks are the cause of GOATS.
If you’re dying a lot as a tank in rq, you’re doing something wrong. They aren’t weak.
Okay. Maybe for you. I surely am enjoying my time playing as a tank.
The part where GOATS stands for GO All Tanks and Supports. Tanks have always had the greatest value in abilities and ults. Supports enabled tanks. Enabled. Even without Brigitte, we saw triple tank and even quadruple tank back in the day.
Tanks weren’t the reason for GOATS. In fact, all signs points to the supports being the reason why Tanks were able to be so efficient.
Also, according to many people, it was Brig that perfected GOATs; the tanks were only good because they had high health and the healers could easily keep them topped up.
Thats because eventually they buffed the heroes that nerfed pre role que… as explained.
However IMO the likes of Dva, Winston and especially Orisa are not very good atm. I havent played ball since CC nerfs went live but before that people always ignore my decent win rate with him and moan that hes a throw pick literally every game.
Good for you that u enjoy them in their current state
So there is no contradiction at all cus i already explained that tanks weren’t the reason for GOATS forming and it was more down to supports and snipers
I’m being taken out of context. I’m not denying supports were critical during this meta. They truly were the catalysts. They enabled the tanks. It’s the fact that dps heroes were never used because tanks could do their job just fine, if not better. And to come full circle, tanks needed a lot of healing and mobility, so 3 supports (aoe heals Brig, big heals Moira/Ana, and Lucio) were necessary.
Point being, there were some tank changes made during the GOATS meta that if reverted, it could enable tanks being far more valuable than dps in rq where selection of dps heroes are redundant.
I didn’t clarify that before. I’m not targeting reverting support heroes. But the tank changes should remain in the past (Rein steadfast, Zarya particle cannon and ult radius, DVa matrix range, etc.) These changes should remain in the past.
Snipers, high sustain, lucio speed, brig AND tanks(because big HP) all resulted in goats.
Me neither so last time
Yet before brig was introduced we saw plenty of dps even with the tanks in their pre-nerfed states…
Multi dps comps are what ended up countering goats too… and dps (snipers) are what made forced metas like goats the same way dps power creep made double shield so necessary…
And the main reason goats was best is cus u could just speed to point and brawl on objectives with big hp and high sustain.
Without the ability to stack 3 tanks and 3 supports tank/enabler nerfs could be reverted or even buffed (most were btw)
What?! I’m done. Imma head out. Where? The only argument you could make would be specific maps, which even then were highly limiting. Snipers didn’t make up goats.
Me saying that wasn’t a point of my argument. I was genuine when I said I didn’t want to repeat myself… yet, here you are…
We didn’t know Orisa and Roadhog synergized so well together until over a year after her release.
Uhh no… Chengdu Hunters were the only teams that did multi-dps. It was difficult and hard to implement. Breaking apart deathball is difficult to achieve. And it shows. Chengdu didn’t make it to the playoffs in 2019.
Ok. Cool. That’s how deathball works.
You clearly are missing the point.
Read^
There were a lot of changes that happened during the GOATS meta. The meta last over a year let’s not forget. You complain here and say revert the nerfs. Well, which ones exactly? You only mentioned one in your op.
Its common knowledge (among open minded people) that widow and other 1 shots played their part in the GOATS meta being created and remaining meta for so long.
A good widow destroys every other dps with ease at pro play.
Widows value is non existent if u go triple tank and speed to point with high sustain
Nah im really not
Nothing in that paragraph described why it was contradicting btw
And of course i mean the changes aimed at killing goats but failed such as lucio speed nerf, reaper and mei buffs, dva nerfs(all on same day) off the top of my head. Lucio speed was eventually buffed back up and EVENTUALLY reaper and mei were toned down. Its almost as if the changes were aimed specifically at destroying goats and lead to over-nerfed/buffed heroes in a forced 222.
Uh no, they didn’t. GOATS consisted of Rein, DVa, Zarya, Lucio, Moira, and Brigitte. Sure, there were variants of GOATS to handle different scenarios (i.e, maps).
If you follow your logic, what widow is fighting dps in a GOATS meta this is such a joke. If anything, they’re trying to get picks off of supports.
That’s exactly what we’re talking about here.
All I’m saying is that most of the tanks were overtuned during goats and they don’t deserve any buffs. Any reversion of GOATS changes, is just gonna cause problems
Dno how this relates to widow being partially responsible for goats forming
Point went way over your head into narnia
Widow isnt fighting dps in goats meta
Thats the point
The comp makes her irrelevant and useless whereas any other squishy comp can be dominated single handely by a decent widow
Read all my posts abit slower and take time to understand them perhaps
No its not lol
Widow (n 1 shots) being so good was 1 of the things that made goats necessary, not tanks being good. Supports being so good was also a much bigger enabler than tanks being good. Mainly BRIG
The ONLY tank that was arguably overtuned was dva and she was gutted and left out to dry for over a year rather than balanced appropriatly.
Reverting goats changes (some have been close to reverted already btw) would not cause problems because stacking tanks and supports is no longer possible
To be fair goats is being played as the meta in diamond and above in open role queue and its actually disgusting.
All the individual heroes that made up goats are pretty strong on their own now, theres no need.
Id argue that dva isnt atm and it took quite a long time for some of the others to be
But my point was at the very start of role ques implementation and even though i admittingly failed to mention, i also meant the reaper and mei buffs that indirectly lowered the impact and enjoyment of playing tanks post 222 and were obviously an attempt to counter goats.
But it’s the exact same thing you were concerned about in your post: power creep xD
This is such a joke
Because of your stubbornness. You say widow this, widow that. “Tanks aren’t enjoyable”. All of these subjective things, and then you disregard the actual facts I tell you.
this is such a joke. If anything, they’re trying to get picks off of supports.