I think that’s a very good idea by the way, I wrote that in a post too 
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The problem is that gold is average and average today is very different from average 4 years ago.
The number of new gold players I see that should be in bronze is astounding.
The thing is we tested 1-3-2, not 1-2-2, more specifically 1-2-2 with all the balance changes coming along with OW2. They are not the same thing
I agree - OP is definitely not saying that.
Why do you assume those balance changes will be effective? Shouldnt they be thoroughly ran through experimental first?
They aren’t that different either.
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Everything I’ve heard sounds effective.
We’ll be able to play it in the beta
Having 2 DPS instead of 3 for both teams actually makes quite the difference.
Support & tank resources are less spread out, less damage flying around, 2 less ults in the mix, less area for the tank to worry about protecting/controlling, less difficult combinations to deal with (can’t have a Widow and a Reaper and a McCree to worry about, just 2) and thats just what I can think of off the top of my head
as I have said elsewhere, there is no guarantee that queue times will be better with 122, and there is a chance they’ll even get worse
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I responded to you in that thread I’m pretty sure, as others did.
There’s no realistic way queue times don’t improve.
The chance they stay the same are already slim, if not impossible. Get worse? Not a chance
Not only are you requiring 1 less tank (which is what holds queue times hostage) but OW2 will have many more players than we have currently. Queue times going down is a guarantee
The only way they’ll get worse is if Blizzard severely and horribly fails to balance the game. I think in theory it could be more fun for more people; but if tanks aren’t strong enough it’ll fall apart. Plus player toxicity might drive a lot of people out of the role, so play nice.
the chances that the queue times will remain the same or increase are actually quite real
I cant speak to likleyhood well, but a number of forum members who play tank currently have already flatly stated that they wont be playing tank anymore. If large numbers of tanks are lost - or worse still, move to dps - the chances of wait times increasing goes up dramatically
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This has been a fundamental problem of 2-2-2 since it was released. All we see people do is try to find the tankiest BS combos to pair with stuff like Immortality Field and Icewall until no one wants to play anymore.
Even so, the 1-3-2 experiment was clearly a mode someone cooked up in about 15 minutes. They gave Roadhog and Zarya cool new abilities while the rest of the tanks got some numerical tweaks to their damage, health, and/or shields. None of the other 24 heroes were touched. Any new standard that fundamentally changes how the game is played (e.g. removing a tank when two tanks have traditionally been required), requires a FULL ROSTER BALANCE PASS.
Personally, I feel it’s probably quite likely that Blizz judged the 1-3-2 test to be a successful proof of concept; it’s just that the mode was never intended to actually be in OW1 barring some sort of crazy immediate success and popularity.
They really aren’t. The amount of new players & requiring half the tanks to start a game as required now guarantee better queue times.
Not only does it not matter if 10, 20 or even 50 tank players have said they won’t solo tank it doesn’t matter. That number doesn’t matter to the tens of thousands or even millions that will.
Also, those people are being dramatic. They say they won’t solo tank because of their experience solo tanking in Overwatch 1. Solo tanking in Overwatch 2 will be different as it will be balanced & designed to be that way. Overwatch 1 was never balanced or designed to have 1 tank per team at all times, so it’s no surprise it was miserable when it happened. I didn’t enjoy it either, but 1-2-2 in OW2 is different
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For the record I actually love the idea of taking two players off of the battlefield. I think it would work better with a less restrictive roll queue though. I think the real problem will be that off tanks can’t efficiently take space or initiate fights alone. We’ll see how that plays out. I think you’re going to have to play Sigma, Orisa (with her old shield), or Ball or else lose.
they really are, actually
many of the new and/or returning players are going to be those that prefer the dps role, so I really dont see any help there
further, many of the existing tank population have already openly declared that they will not be playing tank in this new arrangement. every tank player you lose, and especially if they switch to dps role, means that the chances for same or longer queue times increase
I agree that the forum member numbers are relatively small, but many many many tank players with similar concerns simply dont have a forum account and ergo will be silent on this issue…but will still have the same issues with it despite said silence. There are enough tank players expressing their dislike of the change here that it is evident that a very large number of tank players will be lost to the tank-playing population. A greatly shrunken tank player population greatly increases the chances that wait times will be the same or even worse than they are now
I know of no good reason to believe they arent simply being honest about their feelings about this change
I don’t know for certain that it will be much different. As you say, they are making a lot of changes to rebalance. Some players may well be happy. Others will not.
Some players simply dont want the pressure of being the sole tank, and that won’t change no matter what rebalancing is done
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No it’s not the same.
- They are buffing all the tanks
- support have self heal
- dps move faster
- tanks have cc reduction
- 1-3-2 is adding more damage. And it’s harder to heal skinny targets like dps compared tanks. Support have less targets to heal with 1-2-2. Plus support have self.
- dps have more ultimates that can wipe whole teams out. And 1-3-2 would make that worse
- with 1-2-2 tanks have less players to protect compared to 1-3-2
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The damage potential an extra dps brings when you have less shields or none at all is a massive stress to heals. I don’t know how 1/2/2 is going to feel to play, especially with whatever changes they have cooked up, but it’s still very different from 1/3/2.
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1-3-2 was fine for the most part. It just did not work out due to the amount of damage creep and the tanks not buffed up enough to deal with it.
Reduce the damage creep and/or increase tankiness and a solo tank works just fine.
At that point it’s just people whining about how they don’t have the courage to frontline a fight. But that just means they are cowards and should not play tanks.
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You’re free to believe whatever you want, but math does not support what you’re saying. You would have to lose 50% of current tank players and not gain a single one with OW2 to keep the same queue times.
OW2 is going to bring in a bunch of new players, and with tanks being buffed to be able to solo tank & their increased carry potential it will likely be a proportionally more popular role than it is now.
I don’t understand how you could possibly think queue times will get worse but hey, believe whatever you want.
I’m not saying they’re being dishonest. I’m saying they feel the way they feel right now without even trying it. Once they try it, assuming Blizz does well in making it so tanks feel good, it’s very possible and I would go so far as to say quite likely that they’ll change their mind.
Like I said, they’re being dramatic. They don’t know how it will feel to tank yet they’re making a decision about whether or not they’ll do it. It’s illogical.
That’s unknown. Tanks may feel really great to play, and their opinion on solo tanking may change. The only reference they have is how it feels to solo tank in OW1, which is not comparable to how it will feel in OW2 with new heroes, modes, maps & balance.
If they just reimagine how tanking works without removing 1 tank they can make her work without double shield being a thing. Wow it’s almost like they have complete control over this but they just choose NOT to do it