Thats actually a very reasonable argument, i like this.
Many do not appreciate one of the advantages projectiles have. Especially explosive projectiles.
They have the ability to occupy space. Because they are slower moving an enemy see’s and can predict the trajectory of a projectile and potentially avoid it. Which may sound like a pure down side but once you realize you have have the ability to paint enemies into corners it can become a distinct advantage.
Enemy starts moving right (in relation to you) you fire right ahead of them. Causing them to be forced to change direction or eat the damage.
Suddenly right is not an option for a short while. Which is bigger then people realize.
so what compensates the higher inconsistency of a projectile weapon then?
Nah. They should be the only weapons able to crit imo.
In Overwatch, direct hit damage is direct hit + splash damage.
The change they made to Pharah doesn’t make direct hits weaker since they also deal splash damage.
It would be foolish to think or imply that Symmetra’s or Torbjorn’s devices do all the work with minimal effort from the player themselves. That’s bronze level thinking, and it works to a certain degree, but that’s not the intention of the design.
Rather, again, sentries and turrets work to assist in the elimination of targets, deny or threaten space and eliminate targets. Both the sentries and the turret do this reasonably well.
Once again, this quote represents limited and narrow thinking about Symmetra’s orbs and completely ignores that Symmetra has various tools to make this work. Sentries have stackable slow (up to 60%) with which reduces the mobility of target(s) caught under them, reducing the chances of successfully dodging a giant, fully-charged orb, or a rapid-fire series of orbs.
Instead, the argument places the Symmetra’s orbs in a vaccum and intentionally underscores their performance. Moreover, it does not consider the long occupation of the trajectory and space that it threatens of the course of its travel. It once again, illustrates the lack of understanding behind Symmetra’s builder design and attempts to fit Symmetra into a design that was not intended by Blizzard.
Both Symmetra and Torbjorn are builders, Neither is a “mage” and there are no “mages” within Overwatch at the moment (though there are some fair arguments that Ashe or Echo could fit into the arche-type).
Both Symmetra and Torbjorn build devices that defensive in nature and primarily for damage. Both Symmetra and Torbjorn have area denial or spacial threatening with ultimates like Photon Barrier and Molten Core. Both Symmetra and Torbjorn have a 10-meter short-ranged attack (Torbjorn’s shotgun, Symmetra’s primary), and both have a longer ranged attack (Symmetra’s orbs, Torbjorn’s primary). Both are more resilient than typical Damage-heroes, Torbjorn with his armor and Symmetra with her regenerative shield health.
Where they tend to differ lies largely in output. Torbjorn is more resilient, bulky, but less damaging overall compared to Symmetra who tends to be more of a high output burst or containment. In terms of range, both are about the same; Torbjorn is slightly weaker at close range, Symmetra’s more suited to more severe damage output at closer-ranges.
Both used to offer utility in the form of armor packs or shields, respectively. Revisions to their kits have changed that (Torbjorn’s level 3 Turret is now BOB, and his armor packs are now a part of Brigitte’s kit). Symmetra’s shields were removed and replaced with Photon Barrier, initially as a regular ability and later as a ultimate. Teleporter has remained a constant for Symmetra, changing from an ultimate to a regular ability. Teleporter is highly valued, but much like Doomfist’s typical “rollouts” it’s mainly used to exploit holes in the map geometry and terrain to gain advantages on a number of maps.
There seems to a lot of poor information with regards to hit-scan vs. projectile in Overwatch and it’s pretty clear that there’s a lot of misinformation going on here. Suffice to say, some here have a fairly close understanding of it. Others… not so much.
Irrespective of the hitscan vs. projectile argument; this has no merits at all. Fire rates are going to be tied to damage per second and damage per second doesn’t really correlate to hitscan or projectile weapons (Echo vs. Pharah is the easiest example to prove this).
- except turrets are highly negligible period due to all their counterability. you’ll never always have turrets up and operational every time, place and situation you want to use orbs. imposing such a requirement to compete with various weapons that don’t is unreasonable esp when it’s so easy to get yourself out of the effects of turrets (whether if you block, destroy or escape turrets) and turrets themselves have 10s cd each.
- the “it’s slow so it occupies space” is also another BS argument here. it doesn’t linger like moira’s orb or junkrat’s bombs to actually occupy valuable enemy space. heck the whole reason moira’s orb is designed to move faster then slow down when tethered is so that it gets to make it less dodgeable until it’s tethered so that it can then slow down, rebound to linger there. a projectile simply being slow to get the enemy doesn’t occupy more of the enemy space, it’s just making it really easy to dodge by giving a larger window to do so. if an enemy shot takes ages to reach you, you’re in no rush to dodge it i.e. not “giving up space longer to dodge”.
Actually, projectile heroes do not have TTKs comparable to hitscan (with the exceptions of Hanzo, Echo, and Junkrat). They are, in general, inferior.
Genji, Mei, Pharah, Torbjorn, and Symmetra all have TTKs that average over 4 times Soldier:76’s best TTK (close-range, 3 headshots + helix direct hit. 0.3 second TTK).
Genji and Mei both get just compensation for their slow killing potential with abusive mobility and aggravating control respectively.
It’s Pharah, Torb, and Sym who don’t get compensated, and it shows because they’re all dumpster-tier.
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See, here is a person who gets it.
It is like, is a heroes kit balanced or not? The weapon is just a small part of it.
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Because, as I said, that’s not really true, as theoretically a projectile shot can be randomly evades just as easily/often as it can randomly hit a target due to travel time.
I don’t really get what you’re saying here, as the only reason I included that segment was because I got the impression that fire rates were considered independently from Damage Per Second, even though the latter literally includes the former as well.
First, I don’t think Torb could possibly be considered dumpster tier
Second, you sound like you’re only taking the best case scenario into account rather than the average scenario. Is every Soldier seriously gonna land all headshots all the time?
ummmm that’s not how probability works… heck nor psychology for that matter… like there’s a lot more people that would go and try to dodge slow enemy projectiles rather than go and want to get hit by them…
like it’s simple math here:
hitscan landing shots would be like:
- prob landing shot = prob aim
- expected damage per shot = shot damage x prob aim
whereas projectile is like: prob landing shot = prob aim x prob enemy dodging
- prob landing shot = prob aim x prob enemy dodging
- expected damage per shot = shot damage x prob aim x prob enemy dodging
i.e. expected damage per shot for projectile version of a weapon fire = expected damage per shot of hitscan version x prob enemy dodging <= expected damage per shot of hitscan version
because prob enemy dodging is in [0,1] (i.e. a factor that makes the product at most the same)…
projectiles are already balanced by having a size and no dropoff. i think its already pretty balanced, just hitscan is far more popular so it will see a lot more play.
More forgiving and tracer dont belong in the same sentence, unless theres a than between them.
The spread on her weapon is forgiving 
Yes and this used to be more the case but the Devs have gone in other directions.
Firstly DPS heroes in general have gradually been creeping up for at least 2 years now. However, there is a hard limit on how much damage something can do without being stupid OP. Back in the day the projectiles were higher but that put them closer to the limit, so as DPS have crept up hitscan damage has crept up more as they had more room to go.
For example Tracer got way better range, Reaper got more reliable dmg, Ash and 76 saw more dmg but Junk, Torb and Mei get no real dmg buffs of any kind. The best projectile can hope for is faster, more reliable projectiles that make them more like hitscan, i.e. Genji’s spread reduction, Hanzo’s initial rework or Echo having pretty fast projectiles.
Secondly the devs have recently been moving the game towards more of a typical FPS, which puts the focus on hitscan more than projectile or ability heroes. The best example of this is Ash, McCree and 76 progressively getting buffed as they try to make all 3 viable (good luck with that) meanwhile more MOBA type heroes like Bastion, Junk and Doom fall further behind. Hitscan is the bread and butter of a typical FPS so if that’s the direction the game is going expect hitscans to get preferential treatment.
Ehh what? That’s beyond obvious. You don’t want to get hit by any form of damage in that regard, but in such a chaotic and fast - paced game like Overwatch especially you can accidentally get hit by a projectile weapon really easily while moving around the battlefield, turning around corners, even while trying to evade another projectile, etc.
That’s just the product of the inherent randomness caused by the travel time and dropoff of projectile weapons and theoretically, the chance of someone evading a shot (willingly or unwillingly) is as likely as someone getting hit accidentally (or more rarely as part of a strategy like gathering up damage as Sigma in order to turn it into extra HP, etc.)
She has two skins that are literally called Technomancer, Magician.
Her abilities were/are really similar to Medivh from hots/wow.
She is The Summoner in Junkenstiens Revenge.
idk m8 I think there is more then turrent, tp, area denial to justify bein a builder.
I MEAN SHURE BEFORE 3.0 SHE WAS A BUILDER FOR SHURE, ALL SHE DID WAS BUILD STUFF but now days?
Most projectiles do do quite a bit of damage already (many more than most hitscan weapons), and the trade off for the travel time is having a physical size/hitbox.
uuh except you have no basis to say those events are as equally likely to claim that it “evens out” how it’s literally in the enemy’s hands/control as to dodge or not in plenty of situations.
but even if they are equally likely, it doesn’t change the fact that projectile weapons have a lower expected value of damage done. again it’s simple math here: