Sojourns damage falloff is far too bad to one shot someone across the map now, especially since a headshot does 195 damage now too. Why would you even complain about sojourn when widow exists? Who actually can delete you from across the map.
My answer was meaningful and serious, because you literally said “Why should the enemy team be punished for protecting their own team?” Me mentioning Sym is literally a direct response to that question.
Are you serious? Nobody survives that 5 hp specially if you get hit by her poke damage she used to charge her railgun
Widow is a problem of her own but this post is about soujourn thx very much
Yet again you need to be close for sym to charge her weapon, soujourn can charge it off random things at a distance
Damn, my point was about falloff damage, not the 195 damage specifically… Just that BECAUSE it does less damage now, its damage at range is even lower, so you literally can’t even near one shot someone across the map anymore. Sojourn (effectively) one shot people at close-mid range, but not long range. Like I said, I have no idea why you think sojourn’s railgun specifically needs nerfs when widow can actually one shot you from across the map.
Sojourns charge rate and railgun damage have already been nerfed. She’s a mid-tier DPS right now. Don’t know why you don’t think cass needs the hog treatment, cause he’s the real top DPS right now. For the record I don’t think any character deserves the hog treatment. Hog needed a rework, not a hard nerf.
They lowkey already did.
The only time I see a Sojourn is with a Mercy pocket. Other than that Widowmaker is miles better than her.
Well, let’s start collecting the notes. Here’s what I got so far:
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Am I talking about Snipers generally as a gameplay mechanic in FPS games? Kinda. But specifically the counterplay against Snipers in Overwatch is dramatically less Fun than other FPS games, including Tactical Shooters. And this is because Sniper counterplay in Overwatch is excessively Frustrating and Frequent.
For example:
CounterStrike:
90% of the guns ican deal with an AWP user in under half a second, aside from AWPs being so expensive that it’d be bizarre to use them on a very frequent basis. And by the time people get AWPs, you can just use a smoke grenade to deal with it.
Team Fortress 2:
If a Sniper gets rushed at close range, they are are almost 100% certain to be dead. Add in spies that can instant kill. (I.e. Nothing like a grapple). For example, get a Spy with a Enforcer Revolver, Spycicle, and Dead Ringer, and there’s not much that Sniper can do about it.
Apex Legends:
The Kraber Rifle mostly can’t oneshot in Apex, as of about 10 months ago. And it only shows up in RNG care packages late-game. In addition to pretty severe bullet gravity drop, and and aim punch.
Halo Infinite:
Snipers have a very obvious “scope glint”, a slow zoom-in, and taking literally any damage de-scopes them.
By comparison,
Overwatch 2
- Hide behind a barrier/wall 90% of the game.
- Not Fun
- Ignore the main fight, and play sniper-whack-a-mole the entire match, and pray they don’t selfpeel or get peels.
- Not Fun
- Snipe Snipers with more Snipers
- More Snipers
- With Snipers being in the top 5 most used heroes in both high ELO and all ELOs.
Now here’s a big list of issues associated with Snipers:
- Tank Diff: Not diving the Sniper frequently enough, or not putting up a barrier constantly to block the sniper.
- Team Comp Toxicity: Oh you didn’t pick an AntiSniper composition, or just have a worse Sniper than theirs? You don’t win though, but you do get a ton of toxicity for it. GG GO NEXT.
“Bad Maps”: Havana, Colosseo, Circuit Royale, New Queen Street, Junker Town, Busan, Hanamura, Volskaya, Temple of Anubis, Horizon Lunar Colony, Paris. And these “larger maps than we’ve ever seen before” in the unannounced new game mode maybe in Season 5 or Season 7.- “Stomp of Be Stomped”: Where so many games regardless of ELO are defined by Sniper Diff, and when it’s strong enough.
- Hacking and XIMing and Smurfing: Pretty obvious how Snipers cause a ton of problems here.
- Immortal Ball: Ball has pretty crazy uptime right now, and these Ana nerfs just let him run around without much to worry about. And sure it’s a high skill floor issue. But I basically look at this as “indirect Sniper nerfs”.
- Nonstop Mercy Patching: Gotta make sure that pocketing and boosting Sniper charge speed by 30% isn’t an issue right?
And on that last point, let’s explain a “cycle” I’ve been seeing:
- Snipers are a problem, but the devs won’t nerf them
- So the Devs buff DiveTanks to deal with the Snipers
- Then Supports mald because they are getting dived so hard
- So they buff the Supports to have good survival and peeling
- Then the buffed Supports peel for the Snipers
- So the Devs buff DiveTanks to deal with the Snipers
- …
- Incidentally, LifeWeaver has a 30m range LifeGrip that Invulns and goes through a Winston Bubble.
- Development Costs. With Snipers the way they are, you have to guard every possible angle within a map against too much Sniper sightlines. Which becomes even more of a problem with something like a Petal Platform can bypass a lot of that. And all the exhorbitant effort they’d need to fix all that, is a ton of time and money the devs aren’t willing to speed. Especially since it’s very unlikely they’ve backfilled their former Senior Level Designer, Trey Spisak.
Then you get into something Seagull was scratching the surface on. The game is generally a lot more fun when Rein, Winston or Genji are dominant, especially at high ELO. Why is that? It rewards aggression with fast plays.
Which can get stagnant with a lot of downtime hiding from snipers, in excessive twitch-poke playstyles. (Oh you peaked for 2 seconds, lol you’re dead).
And the opposite, is all the downtime in excessively defensive comps, just cooldowning each other to a standstill, until you get enough Ult to break the standstill.
Another thing which Overwatch 2 has figured out, is that a major advantage that Overwatch 2 has over other competing games is “reduced downtime” between fights. Battle Royales and CounterStrike type game modes just have a ton of time were players are either looting or spectating their teammates while dead. Overwatch mostly fixed that with Queue Times, but if you’re spending a ton of that time looking at a wall or hiding behind a barrier. That’s really weakening that strength Overwatch 2 should have.
And let’s throw in, 2CP not being a valid game mode anymore, due to not enough Tanks providing cover. Throw in the other maps listed above and that what out of 29 maps, 11 of them are “Sniper maps”? Over a third of the maps are “bad maps” because of Snipers? Push is a “bad game mode” because of Snipers.
Supposedly you have some sort of “large map gamemode” coming up. Which just screams “Sniper problems”.
One of your lead map designers is no longer with the company. What do you bet you haven’t backfilled that role yet, much less gotten them up to speed.
And I really gotta wonder. Who specifically on the development team is doing everything they can not to address these issues directly? Are they aware that these issues even exist? Have they rationally decided that it’s “worth it” in terms of lost profits, lost players, and lost development resources, after totaling everything up.
Because, to be honest, I have some pretty big doubts about that, with the OW2 Alpha coming out a Year ago, and there has been a whole lot of nothing in dealing with Snipers directly.
Perhaps you’ve convinced yourselves that by reducing the only fun counterplay against Snipers to be “More Snipers”, that you must appeal to all these supposed Sniper Mains, which are probably mostly just DPS mains trying to salvage some fun.
The only real hope I have on all that is that they are nerfing Ashe/Cassidy and all the AnchorTanks with a Barrier, because you want these problems to get so severe that the community starts demanding action on it.
And you aren’t going to get another shot at your PVE Launch, and it’s attempts to hold onto that temporary flood of players into the game.
And you know, that’s so galling about all of this? We can see how you’re trying to solve the frustrating aspects of the game with oneshot combos, barrier spam, and stun spam. You’ve reworked nearly half the hero roster in the basis of lowering frequent frustrations. But you can barely lift a finger when it comes to Snipers, and pull all sorts of directly conflicting mental gymnastics with Sojourm?
Really, what gives? Why? When?
Checking the calendar, you got about 31 weeks until the expected date of BlizCon 2023 and potentially the launch of PVE.
You’re running out of time, you’re running out of budget, and you’re running low on community goodwill. How much are you willing to lose over this? Since if you whiff on the PVE Launch, you probably aren’t ever going to get another opportunity for play growth like that ever again.
Me too, but mine is a rare and happy surprise.
Mine’s more is a “How many tens of millions of dollars you wanna lose over this Blizzard” view.
Heck, if they screw up player retention for PVE Launch, then it would be kinda worthless. That’s probably a “Hundreds of Millions of dollars” type of mistake.
There’s only small fraction of about 7% of their players playing Snipers, which probably ends up being about 1% Sniper Mains, with maybe 0.3% quitting over it.
I.e. Nearly zero risk to make it more Fun to play against Snipers, versus franchise ending risk if they don’t.
I can’t agree or disagree with you until I see how many people are paying Blizzard and playing OW2 right now. I’m seeing people with Lifeweaver day 1 and the battle pass skins already, and my queues are fast whenever I play, so everything seems fine to me.
Of course, if you show me blizzard is somehow losing money and players, I might agree with you. Right now, we should only go nuclear if the only alternative is literally shutting OW down.
Do I honestly need to explain the concept of opportunity costs?
didnt sojourn already get the hog treatment?
both of them could 1 shot at the start of ow2
now neither of them can
“Opportunity costs” is more like “leaving money on the table” and not “actively losing money”. You’re only losing money if you’re driving players away. Like, you know, if you destroy the game balance by listening to people who only want the game changed because they’re annoyed.
And how exactly would nerfing Snipers reduce the total worthwhile hero choices in the game?
You know that does reduce worthwhile hero choices? Heroes with very weak and unejoyable counterplay.
Do you honestly think none of the extensive laundry list of issues I put up top applies to player retention?
It would render the whole dps role useless. They are the last truly useful damage heroes left.
Reducing snipers will indirectly buff anything snipers counters with their burst damage and such. by design, they’re the best at burst damage, so its entirely possibly the other burst damage options in the game still won’t be enough to counter act such a dramatic nerf.
The literal same way strong snipers can reduce worthwhile choices. You’re forced to do specific things to counter them. The only way to avoid such a constant issue is to introduce ways to keep snipers in line that don’t involve gutting them to the point where you just kicked the can a little bit down the road.
It applies to player retention, but it looks like you’re trying to patch a hole that isn’t there. Overwatch isn’t having player retention issues, is it?
You play widow you have no opinion 
Anyways DPS in silver is literally the most able to carry games, sorry you’re hardstuck there too see soujourn is still a problem at high play.
Lets be honest, nobody is surviving with 5 hp left cause soujourn does poke damage just to finish off with railgun, again, i would nerf railgun to do 150 hp hs outside ult, and also nerf a bit of mobility she has wayy too much firepower and waay too much mobility
I play Widow/Sombra/Pharah, fool. Sometimes Reaper too. I am mostly concerned about higher ranks. I already know dps in silver is perfectly climbable. I’ve been doing it lol.
Nice outdated info tho.
I’d like to remind everyone that supposedly hogs not supposed to be like that forever.
BUT… what they did and what people are agreeing upon here is that Hog got trashed and was left in that state indeterminately.
So … this is just another “please dumpster heroes I don’t like” thread.
Because symmetra is already bad enough.
Pretty much no one places Sojourn anymore even in upper QP or top 500.