❗ Separate balancing for OWL needs to be done

General Discussion
61

Of course they would, they need to if they want to find what’s going to be meta after the changes.

It’s highly unlikely.

Not when you have less than half your competition pickrate and worse stats all around.

Relative to the number of tanks, her pickrate was too low, and her winrate was below the average of the tier (let alone that of Rein/Zarya).

That’s not when she received the DM cooldown nerf.
The only time she was played with Orisa was right before Sigma’s release, and she was still 3rd in OWL (behind Orisa and Roadhog), and even lower on ladder.
After that, she remained a 0% pickrate hero in GM until late January. Same for the OWL playoffs.

That doesn’t warrant a nerf or a change. Look at Lucio, devs tried nerfing him and reworking him, and it didn’t work. The only time he left the meta was when a more powerful hero (Mercy) appeared.
They can’t nerf him without making him useless, and they can’t really rework him without making him another hero. It is accepted that Lucio will always be a good pick in OWL, and even ladder.

Last month, she’s the least picked tank with the lowest winrate in the category.
I’m not denying Winston being bad, but D.Va is worse.

Sigma, Roadhog and Zarya all have higher pickrates and winrates. The difference is pretty massive with Sigma and especially Zarya.
And no, her pickrate isn’t rising by any means. Quite the opposite in fact.
Here’s her overall trend:

61HVW4D.png973×205

In GM, daily pickrates vary wildly, so there’s no discernible trend. However, if you compare her Last 3 months, This month and This week pickrates, you can see it going downwards.

Utility does affect power. Uniqueness doesn’t.
You’re arguing semantics here.

62

I would. They acknowledging this is a problem but doing nothing is the same. They have made changes based instead of trying to take a deeper and bigger look at things.

Agreed. Balancing per rank is not viable tbh.
Nonetheless, they keep balancing based only in the OWL so far even though “they acknowledged it as a aproblem”.

63

its as if you replied you yourself.

I was thinking of the boosters nerf.

I think a change or nerf could definitely be a solution though. its not a bad idea just because it was executed suboptimally.

this was also said before mercy meta, where he became a bad pick in owl and ladder.

neither are trash or even struggling in gm though. they both have good pickrates and winrates.

I meant and should have said pickrate relative to the other tanks. this week shes above winston and hog in playtime while also having a slightly higher wr.

no, I am not. I used the same definition of unique as you.

64

Nice trolling, but:

  • pros testing changes to find metas is a gimme
  • devs not giving a damn about what the community tells them is also a gimme

When she was the fourth most played tank on ladder ? And equal to Zarya in GM ?
She wasn’t good, she was barely viable, and overused in GM by people trying to mimick pros. Zarya had superior stats in every aspect.
Which is why now that she’s nerfed she’s pretty much trash. Among the worst tanks.

They literally had to buff him back. It just doesn’t work.

He wasn’t a bad pick on ladder. Still very much viable.
But it did take a hero as OP as Moth mercy to dethrone him, at least in OWL.

They both have bad pickrates and among the worst winrates of the game in GM. They’re well below average.
They’re 4th and 7th worst winrates overall. The only heroes with worse winrates are Sombra, Baptiste and Hanzo.

Winston fell hard due to Hammond being banned. Roadhog is also bad and that has been a long time issue. He’s simply not a tank. With Ashe buffed, he just feeds her BOBs.
Climbing “relatively” isn’t good when you’re going down absolutely. It simply means the tanks are in shamble.

You’re trying to define uniqueness as a power changing thing. It isn’t.

1 Like
65

Guess we should change rules for highschool sports to make it more appealing to the masses? Yea no

66

Sure, the moment highschool sport events are open signups for $40, you should probably do that.

67

So have a Pro Rules playlist that GM/Master’s players can access.

There are differences between high school sports and professional sports tho. Like, in football, personal fouls are a guaranteed 1st down in NFL but not in high school (by NFHS rules, at least), and for a completed pass, high schoolers only need one foot in bounds while NFL require two. I know baseball and basketball both also have rules differences between high school, college, and pro leagues. Honestly, real sports are the model that Overwatch should follow if they want a successful league, because real sports recognize that different skill brackets have different needs and different phenomenon.

This is why moving hero bans to be Master’s+ only is a good move. Enacting two sets of balancing rules, Ladder and Pro, would be the ideal followup.

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68

there should be diffrent balance for gm and master they are pros after all.

69

Look at yourself deciding for others what they learn from…

70

Devs could balance by tier:

  • Bronze has bronze balancing (e.g., bastion nerf LOL)
  • Silver has silver balance
  • Gold has gold…
    …
  • T500/OWL has T500/OWL balancing
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71

Sombra’s AMAZING on ladder.

Play in a duo or higher if you’re not in GM and she destroys.
She plays differently because the pros are coordinated and nonGM players simply aren’t.

That’s not separate balancing, it’s not different strengths.
It’s just that everyone else is playing WRONG.

72

good lord this is such a stupid take.

OWL is meant to be what the highest tier of Overwatch looks like.

How is that supposed to be the case when they aren’t even the same game?

It’s bad advertising, it’s bad for practice, it’s just bad all around.

and bottom up balancing in general is a terrible idea. Always go top down.

73

I think creating separate balance rules for every tier would be over-the-top and very jarring. I think it’s sufficient to just create a Ladder playlist (balanced around Diamond, which represents a bracket of skilled players that aren’t under the effects of extreme skill compression) and a Pro playlist (balanced around OWL/GM). Comp uses Ladder playlist, and Master’s+ players have the option to access a Pro Rules Comp Playlist (or can vote to enable it, or Pro rules are just automatically applied to Master’s+, etc, I’m not picky)

74

this next patch is a clear instance of ignoring owl and balancing for ladder instead

75

I’ve said since OWL came out, balancing for people watching a video game is very different then balancing for people playing a video game.

76

OWL’s top level play is still radically different from top level play on ladder (aka T500). Like Yourself said, OWL has coaches and teams train with each other so its nothing like top ladder.

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77

Jarring only for folks crossing thresholds. Most players are usually hard-stuck in a certain bracket. At least I am >.<

78

He speaks the truth!

79

OWL is not something you learn from

It absolutely is. I learned sombra from watching Doha’s POV and I bettered my Rein and Winston gameplay by watching Guxue and Super’s POV

80

Or for folks who sit near a threshold. They’d be flipping between two balance rules very frequently.

Honestly, I think two is adequate, and honestly, yes, we do need split balancing rules. While folks will say we need to balance around OWL for “top down balance,” there are two issues here: top down balancing for the absolute extreme doesn’t work because of skill compression (we’ve seen plenty of evidence of this over the past two years–this is why Diamond or even Master’s is a better reference point, because these are skilled players who experience way less skill compression), and Blizzard isn’t really “top down balancing” anyway–they’re “top entertainment balancing.” It’d be one thing if they were seeking to create actual balance based on OWL, but they aren’t–they’re balancing to create an entertaining eSport. That’s fine, but most of us aren’t trying to be an entertaining eSport–we’re trying to play an enjoyable and balanced game!