I am looking for a deep analysis, based on math - if someone knows a streamer or if a video was already made.
The vision. A top down view of a cart with “3” people on it constantly vs “the team fight ahead” and winning vs losing and having 0 or 1 person on cart. The video would compare where the card “would be” versus the other scenario.
MY vision. This is the stuff that should be in the tutorial that high level players “get” but “fun” looking players dont care about knowing. Is it truly situational? What are the variables? Is it deterministic that if 2 tanks, 2 dps and 1 healer push up and continue to “steam roll” the enemy “trickle” can allow a more optimize strategy.
What happens in games? You get a mixed of people - I tend to think THIS is the time to chase down kills after getting the initial point (kings row, Blizz world). But then I get yelled at “3 on cart please”… and as a tank or dps I want to secure that area between they’re spawn and the initial point - “point 2”. Sometimes this is called “feeding” if you try to secure that area alone and you think oh someone gets it… but then you realize everyone is on the cart slowing moving along.
1 variable I can see is, the rate of killing for point 1. Was it a team kill? because if so, the whole enemy team is respawning at once - better not “feed alone”. If it was a slow trickle, I can only imagine people just hiding in doorways as their teamates are coming back from the “long walk”. - but even in the optimal sense I hear “3 on cart please” - and this is where I feel “should I coach them?” - and THIS is where people I will feel like these folks are holding me in the ELO I am if they are unaware.
TL;DR - Cart Myth analysis
https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchUniversity/comments/9ir4ov/the_misconceptions_of_having_3_on_cart/
This is probably what you’re looking for.
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I’m drooling.
THIS is the game sense that I know but like there’s a gap where I am and the people around me sometimes do not. AND whats worse is I get called out for throwing… I cry on the inside.
THANK you, and how can we get this to be common knowledge? the 3 on cart meme is coming from somewhere right? Why cant this link be common knowledge?
It’s coming from ignorance, mostly. With only a basic understanding of game mechanics and the fact that the payload travel indicator goes up to 3 then people think “If it goes up to three then that’s where it always should be”. There also use to be songs made about staying on the cart that it just got drilled into peoples heads to “stay on the cart”.
In games below plat team fights aren’t really a thing, per se. So sticking on the cart is generally the best option. Once you get into the higher-ranks people will generally unlearn the programming with enough thought but it can be REALLY hard to pull through if someone is just climbing normally.
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imo the only heroes that should stay on cart are as follows: Ana (stay in LoS, she has long range healing), Zen same reason, Mei (she can easily defend herself vs most* flank heroes).
Hog can also be the cart pusher while everyone else moves up, so long as said Hog is trusted to defend itself, and not die vs a Baby Dva…
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Sue this is all good but I think this is another factor that I think Eyevou is touching on - I have to dumb down my game, or atleast see what the team is doing. My issue is this should be in the game or something. This knowledge should not have to be sought out.
Now you do raise more “variables” - I remember one time being doomfist being the “one” because everyone ran up and I figured 1 is better than none. But as doomfist I was making snide jokes. “I dont want to hear tanks complaining they have gold dmg and elims at the end of the game!” (I did have them at the end when we lost for other reasons).
My team I think my team were more over aggressive vs actual “controlling space” - but it worked. We lost on defense - or lack there of.
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Never do this, once again my opinion, but doing this will create bad habits that will follow you! No matter the role I’m currently playing on maps such as these, I will only ever touch point on those 4 heroes, or during OT. I am always pushed up when possible holding the ground my team takes.
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I think Stylosa touched on this - its not just my opinion. I appreciate your take, I think thats why I made that other post about coaching others… cause not only would I not like to stay on cart but I feel I have to convince others - otherwise I get reported … Sometimes I think I can the teamates I get because I get reported / avoided… but thats another topic.
This game had so many shortcomings so many lack of foresights - it got way bigger than they thought. What made it worse is this lack of information. i.e. I have to look up damage numbers on overwatch wiki before I even find it in-game… I get strange numbers in my stats and told “its strange but dont worry about it”… Its over complicated and yet hides information causing some of its own issues.
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I have to agree with the fact that the game itself lacks to provide certain info.
I for example had no idea a Mercy could super jump or how to do it until I saw it in a video. Never knew about Moira fade jumps until I again saw it in a vide. Same for other things.
Like no way to know about it unless someone tells you, you see it in a video or you find about it by accident in game. Same thing for animation cancel. I did not know about half of them until I saw Jayne’s video about it. I had instances where I felt stupid for not knowing a certain thing that by that time was “common knowledge”. No way for the game to teach you unless you are specifically being told.
I wonder how others figured it out and then shared it with the rest of us. Maybe by spending hours alone in a custom game trying everything they could think of and saw what sticks.
Do you have a link to that video? (I know about animation cancelling but only for like… soldier)
Typically it’s trial and error. Sometimes people stumble across things then go into the training ground to try and reproduce it.
No I do not unfortunately. It was a year ago or so when I stumbled upon it in my recommendation section. AFAIK it was Soldier, Winston and I think Genji. With Winston and Genji I think it was more about melee animation cancel and additional damage dealt by Winston when landing and melee-ing. Like I never knew about that stuff before I saw it and I understand that certain techs and jukes are mostly in like higher ranks, but it would not be bad to put it somewhere in the game like when you press F1 for a certain hero.
There was also another one of Jayne’s videos where he was doing a VOD review of a Pharah player where he also pointed out how one needs to shoot a rocket into the enemy first before ulting. I never knew about that one 
I think it also had something to do with animation cancel but am not 100 % sure. Never tried it myself.
And this is true. I personally found out by accident that the payload heals you when you are on attack. I bet that there were a lot of videos back then about it, but I never stumbled upon any of those and have figured it out myself.
What does that do? Fire a rocket, hit them, then ult for a quick kill?
I think it gets more damage in, not really sure 
cannot remember. I might try and find that video later (it is again an old one), but am way too lazy to do it right now
Nvm, found it: @Eyevou
It is a long video but at around 23:19 mark he talks about animation cancel with rocket+ barrage. And I think he also states that it gets extra damage in. If you move forward towards the end of the video he points out that the enemy D.VA was very low and if he would have put rocket in first before ulting he might have killed her with the rocket itself.
I did not watch the whole video I skimmed through it.
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One thing you have to take into account as well is how this game has evolved since release…
Go watch Season 1 OWL games and you’ll see some stuff that is “just plain wrong.” But back then it was completely acceptable.
By the time I started playing Overwatch (season 10), it was very well understood that 2-2-2 was the more consistent team composition.
GOATS was still kind of growing in popularity but it wasn’t brand new in season 10 nor was it the only thing played.
As the game transitioned into 2-2-2 format, different heroes got released, balance patches came through and ultimately changed how the game is run.
At this point, there’s 5 or 6 different team compositions (that I can think of) that are fairly well known across the community (some of which are just variations of the other) but it’s because the Dev team has pushed to make Overwatch a team comp/map dependent game.
ht tps://youtu.be/sa_jlqgJnyo
This video does a really good job of explaining what I’m trying to. You can watch just the first 10 to 12 minutes and he’ll cover what matters.
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