This has been discussed before. It’s supposed to be 2m radius, that’s what it is, the visual of the previous version was bugged and showing a larger area than it should have.
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And thats extremely easy to evade unless youre near him, thats puts him in danger, and that makes him practice target while charging it
unless you’re tracer is not extremely easy to evade
you’re as good as dead if you don’t have cc/mobility and you’re next to a wall
Thanks. While I cannot not confirm this, I will mention (without verifying) this in the main post.
I call bs on that. Just completely. It was not visual only. You could hit targets within the supposed 1.5 meters on the edge where it did not have a hitbox according to the circle being “bigger” visually.
If it was the case that it was purely visual, targets within that outer 1 meter of the visual would not be hit ever. That was not what was happening in memory.
it was 3 meters in the center radius before, not 1.5. I’m not going to believe what is likely nothing more than a lie unless proof of extensive testing on an older version surfaces proving that it was truthful.
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How about the outer ring damage?
Sorry mate, nothing I can do for you about that testing.
Here’s the dev post though, I don’t have a horse in that race, just leaving it here for reference.
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I believed it at first for a bit, that dev post. I was the first to respond to it. Then I thought about it, and considering he didn’t provide proper evidence to suggest otherwise…
Yeah. I don’t buy it. I honestly think they stealth nerfed it.
But regardless of truth or not, the inner aoe being only 2 meters makes it incredibly difficult to get kills with it. Upping the outer ring’s minimum and max damage to 50-225 from 15-200 and buffing the center’s radius to 3 meters would likely fix meteor strike so that it actually is deadly and not just stupidly easy to walk out of.
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Could you explain to me how you know the inner ring was hitting a larger area? The outer ring damage was nerfed. Isn’t it possible that the outer ring damage was killing things and we thought it was the inner ring?
In any case, buff or nerf, the info on the patch notes matches the current actual size (roughly), so it’s fine from that perspective (balance notwithstanding).
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My evidence to suggest that it was actually hitting the areas the visuals suggested is purely on the basis that you could hit targets at the very edge of the old meteor strike. If the center was smaller in radius hitbox wise, that would mean the outer edge of the hitbox would be pulled inwards by it being smaller as there is no gap between the two, meaning you would be able to stand at the edge or 1.5 meters within the visual so long as your hitbox is not extending into the actual hitbox, and not get hit by it.
This would validate the visuals being wrong idea proposed by the devs.
But if you could be hit in that part of the aoe regardless of how far you stand in it, then it invalidates the idea.
Maybe I’m not following this right, but looking at the screenshots comparison, the visual of the outer ring size doesn’t seem to have changed. The angle difference and center position make it tricky, but they’re roughly the same size. The edges of the outer circle touch roughly the same place both in live and patch 1.30.0.1.
Yet the inner ring visual (and hitbox) obviously did change, so I think it’s fair to say the outer ring is pretty much independent from the inner ring.
The outer ring was likely not an issue, visual and hitbox, the inner ring was the one acting up.
I’m guessing the outer ring is just co-centric with the inner ring, rather than a extension of it and thus not proportional to its size.
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Alright well… shoot. I went back to look at it again… I feel a bit dumb. Regardless, the hitbox should have been updated to match the visual, not the visual being updated to match the hitbox. It’s incredibly weak having the center this small.
Instead of this, perhaps it would just in general be a good idea to say that meteor strike’s inner aoe should be 3 meters so that there is a lot more room to work with for securing kills, on top of raising the damage scaling of the outer aoe from 15-200 to 50-225
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I think in general though this is the direction doom needs to go in:
Have slam’s cc was removed to keep the “added counterplay” while also removing its inconsistency.
Revert Seismic slam max travel distance to 20 meters from 15.
I would love uppercut to have its old duration back so it could actually secure environmental kills on its own, but that’s not needed so long as it’s compensated elsewhere in his kit.
Then meteor strike…
I’d like it to be fully reverted myself, but honestly it’s easy to keep it strong without reverting it.
Raise minimum and maximum damage of the outer aoe from 15-200 currently to 50-225, then buff the center aoe’s radius to 3 meters from 2.
I feel like a consistent spread should be introduced for doom too.
Having the pellets travel in the same places every time would allow doom a much needed sense of knowing where to aim, not having to rely on getting good rng to land shots at a distance/when the spread of your weapon widened.
Handcannon should also have the spread tightened to 1.85 degrees from 2.15 and then adjust his falloff so it is actually a problem for him, reducing minimum and maximum distance requirements to 10-20 meters from 15-30 meters.
now, something I would like to change about his passive and base hp, seeing as reaper has somewhat changed what is seemingly okay to introduce while still being fair… Doesn’t have to happen by any means but I don’t think it would be unreasonable.
His base hp would gain 25 shields (250 hp + 25 shields for 275 health), then his passive would have its maximum reduced to 125, shield gain per ability landed reduced to 25 from 35, shield gain per target hit by meteor strike reduced to 60 from 75, and then here’s the big part: Doom’s shields from his passive would no longer be non-recoverable, they would regen after not taking damage, and instead of decaying over time, would all disappear after 9 seconds of not dealing ability damage. He would continue to repair his shielding by damaging people with abilities, too. This would not change the dive style doom, as his reduced shield gain + the extra on his base hp would mean he would end up with roughly the same gained from hitting 2 abilities. (5 hp difference)x
The main difference would be that at max shields you would not maintain shielding for a good period of time, after only 9 seconds all of them would be gone, whereas for max shielding currently 9 seconds would only remove 27 shields from the 150. I think it would provide incentive for doom to actually play as a brawler, while keeping him in line for the very cheesy playstyle that has actually allowed doom to be playable for the majority of his existance-and simultaneously killing off his ability to snowball one fight to the next, as there is very infrequently a case where one fight ends and then another immediately begins, its usually within 30 seconds but not 10.
Well, this is straightforward. His ult just sucks and doesn’t get kills anymore
Thats completely false. I see his ult killing people (Including Ana) all the time.
It of course still does, people are just pining for something like a DF D.va bomb. Speaking of which, D.vas bomb kind of seems way OP compared to poor DF… why she should get a 1000 point weapon of mass destruction on top of everything else and a second life in the process… seems a bit unfair considering how easy she builds charge compared to poor DF…
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diva ult is a bit limited in usage, it also doesnt allow her to escap while doomfist literally can reach any point on the map
Good point, though I don’t think the intention is to use it mainly as an escape ability although people do because its so poor an ult.
Come on man. You don’t see that. Just say you hate Doomfist and you’re happy he’s an f tier throw pick instead of pretending you care about balance.
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Amazing post. Totally agree, apart from different ideas as to how to restore him to an average level.
What I’d like to add is this:
The Doomfist Nerfs were just another great example of Blizzard’s inability to be subtle when it comes to Overwatch continued balancing game.
They have developed a trend of overcompensation. Which has been going for a good while now, including a whole trove of patches.
Example the recent McCree + Reaper + Armor changes. changes.
What they should have done (on ptr):
- Implement changes to McCree’s Peacekeeper, 45 to 50.
- See how it goes for a month.
- Adjust slightly.
- Wait a month. Go live
- Implement Armor changes.
- Wait 1 or 2 months to see the impact.
- Adjust slightly.
- Wait a month. Go Live.
- Implement Reaper changes.
- Check it out a month.
- Adjust slightly. Go live.
Any scientist knows that when you run experiments trying to verify a Hypothesis, you ever only change 1 parameter at a time. So you can test it’s impact and results. The reason being that if you alter several parameters at the same time, you cannot be sure how each one individually alters the final results, nor how the changes interact with each other, as the complexity of the system and parameters involved grows, this becomes even harder.
Instead they keep bashing out gigantic changes all at once.
Blizzard time and again brings in not 1 or 2 Nerfs to characters, but a whole bunch of them. Not to mention other buffs to other characters, that completely alter the landscape of interactions beyond what anyone can foresee.
As a result the keep ending up with a pendulum that swings into extremes. Leaving heroes that were viable yesterday, completely worthless today.
My idea is that either:
- They do it on purpose to keep the meta in flux to some extreme, to try and keep the game fresh.
- They are being ‘rushed’ into changes, because their culture is changing, just as they are ‘rushed’ into releases etc by the influence of Activision. Basically it’s a result of a changing company culture.
- They are just unwilling to face the fact that they are creating more problems with the crude changes they keep making.
Apart from that I can’t help but wonder.
If they wanted to adjust CC, they should have adjusted CC across the board, for all heroes in 1 fell stroke. See how it goes and fine tune on PTR.
Doomfist’s Uppercut CC was reduced by 80%
His Slam CC was reduced by 100%
His Ult Killzone was also reduced by 80%
His Slam Range was reduced by 25%
He was a High skill floor/ceiling hero with a High Risk/Reward package that was dependent on his CC and they singled him out to remove all CC and leave him a flying sack of bones.
McCree’s cc was unchanged, but his gun was buffed.
Junkrat’s cc (trap + mines) were unchanged
Roadhog’s Hook was slightly buffed
Brigitte’s CC wasn’t changed (except that it doesn’t go through shields anymore)
Ashe & lucio’s boop were unchanged.
And it goes on and on…
If you want to reduce CC in this game, you cannot just nerf 1 hero into the ground and leave the rest unchanged, yet that is exactly what they did.
Not to mention his ult. As you said, Genji blade can kill a whole team in the hands of a good genji… Doomfist ult even at it’s best could perhaps do 1 or 2 people more when used in combo. But it required a lot of prediction skill still (except with grav) now you cannot even kill 1 Ana or Zen. Don’t even consider Moira or Tracer or Lucio, they were hard to kill already. Even before Doomfist ult was often used as an escape or engage, rather than damage, yet now it’s useless for even doing decent damage.
Anyway I digress. Blizzard needs to start implementing and testing changes in a more subtle manner, they keep overdoing it and I am (not the only one) getting pretty tired of it… if they can’t do it right, than rather not do it at all leave the game in a set state. So we can at least adjust to that and enjoy it.
As for my idea’s on Doomfist recovery:
Based on his pre-patch dec 11 state:
Doomfist’s Uppercut CC reduced by 30%
His Slam CC reduced by 50%
His Ult Killzone was also reduced by 40%
His Slam Range was reduced by 10%
That would be a more subtle version of what they did and in my eyes way more reasonable.
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Boy that’s convenient for your narrative.
To bad it didn’t happen that way
Let’s not forget Seagull was also not the only person saying this, most people on here shared that sentiment.
We should make this a megathread, maybe Blizz will pay attention to it and fortunately wont take another half a year to do something
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