Role Queue - Why 2/2/2?

Personally I prefer 2-2-2 over the idea of 3-2-1. As an average tank player one of my favorite things about tanking is the interactions and synergies that you can have with other tanks.

Also as someone who plays tanks in low gold and am constantly focused and CC chained, I would enjoy tanking a lot less if I was the only tank on a composition.

With that being said I don’t think 2-2-2 is perfect and needs additional heroes to make it feel better. I think its in the right direction, but still needs improvement. I think additional tank and support heroes would also help alleviate the long wait times that DPS currently have to deal with.

1 Like

Doesn’t give any information on what made it “bad” or why. I played countless 1/4/1 and 2/3/1 games before forced 2/2/2 and by my own opinion the games were overall better. The only way I might call specific match-ups “bad” is if the other team was 2/2/2 and stomped us (or the reverse happened) but forcing both teams to 1/4/1 or 2/3/1 removes this contrived idea of “balance” from being the reason for the stomp.

might be the first experimental mode.

What about just putting DPS in one bucket and everything else in another and making it 3/3? That seems like a step in the right direction to me. But then again, I think the game was better before any role enforcement at all so my opinion isn’t likely to be popular with most people on this forum…

1-4+1 is a hunting game where you Clap the other teams healer and win, this isn’t an opinion btw it’s effectively what Jeff said in his fourm post about the matter. Enemy healer got targeted every fight which resulted in no fun for em.

1-3-2 would require a ton of tank rebalances ,which would me tanks losing their identity or in some cases being moved. You rely too heavily on one tank, if the teams wants the blue rectangle but I feel like hamster this game, the entire teams gonna have to play around hamster. Less fun for some tank and support players, solo tanking is stressful for some as is the less protection for healers. Games are a lot more hectic, sure some people may enjoy that, but there’s already tons of other games and even other overwatch modes that do that.
Gini a sec and I’ll find the actual post too

3 Likes

1-4-1 off the table, 2-3-2 requires too many core changes to the game, 1-3-2 is the only feasible change and even then it ain’t great, but someone in February you can try it in the experimental card

Thanks for linking this. So what about combining tank/support into one bucket, and making it 3/3 instead of 2/2/2? I feel like that’s at least a step in the right direction.

EDIT: It’s interesting that in his post, Jeff even states that it felt more like old-school OW. That it was a bit more loose and chaotic, and he points out that in pre-2/2/2 OW the norm was one tank or less. Yes, Jeff, that’s right. Back when the game had a rapidly growing user-base, it was actually fun to play and if a player wanted a balanced team badly enough (as bad as they whine on the forums) they actually picked the role they were whining to their team for.

It’s incredible to me that a game that once took 20 seconds to queue, consistently, now takes 10-20 minutes for a clear half of the hero pool (for the most popular role in the game, no less) and the lead developer doesn’t seem to fathom how much this change negatively impacted his game.

They went for more defined roles (the cause of all the toxicity) instead of blurring them as much as possible. They went the exact opposite way from what they should have. Queue times will get worse as the player-base continues to shrink in coming months, and that’s the beginning of the death spiral for these kinds of games.

You’d always end up with solo tank or solo sup, which brings the same issue as a 1-2-3 lock.

1 Like

Wait time vs having a good game where there isn’t too much importance placed on the solo tank or solo healer and not having to drastically change every other tank hero to be decent as a solo tank, I dunno.

What’s the point of fast queue times if the game is trash, and who would play tanks when you are stuck to rigid jobs you can’t ignore and never get to go off on the enemy yourself outside for an ult, no thankyou sir.

1 Like

So you really prefer the current game (from when you open OW to when you close it, queue times and all) to the 2015/2016/2017 game?

If you say yes, I’ll believe you, but I’ll never understand the opinion. It’s safe to say that the game I once enjoyed has morphed into something no longer for me. And that’s perfectly ok.

No word of a lie yeah - the game is actually decent under the role based SR rather than queue roulette deciding more games than the players did. The old game had some better elements, like better queue times, but now we have assured match quality that is mostly consistent and this system can’t exist without RQ + doesn’t murder my will to live by making me a solo tank unable to participate.

It’s better now, even though better came with some downsides that I think can be alleviated so long as blizz commits to being more hands on with the distribution of players in each role (I know not everyone would like that, but there isn’t a fix outside of that that retains the RBSR improvement to the game. Use the problem to fix the problem, it can only be done by committing human resources.)

Instead redirecting it to being frustrated at what they can’t play
I.e. switching roles mid match to help their team aka flex.

I disagree, I find that people care less due to Role Q since they play on their “off roles”

2 Likes

Assured match quality? I don’t know about you, but upon my return my matches are consistently complete stomps. One way or the other. I can’t flex into roles we need and if the other players refuse to - we lose. And that apparently happens often to one team or the other. I had two good games (both draws, another mechanic that needs to be eliminated imo) out of maybe 20. The other 18 were excruciatingly bad. Like I said, it’s ok that you like it and I don’t. I’m leaving the game (again) and I can’t be the only one, but it is interesting to read why the people who (presumably) agitated for 2/2/2 claim to enjoy it.

I would like to see Overwatch teams be 7 players, instead of 6. That way team compositions can be 2-3-2 or 2-2-2 with 1 player focused on counter picking the enemy team’s best player.

Strange, I had the opposite effect. Matchmaker decided one sided stomps at masters/gm and to get a decent game where both sides played hard you could be spending 3 hours easily not getting a single one, now it’s like that game after game since the game isn’t allocating useless resources by grabbing too many of the same type of player who weren’t proficient in other roles to standards of that rank.

As I said, it came with some downsides, but none of those are worth more to me than RBSR has been - it saved the game for me. I was on the end of the rope until they announced it was coming, then I started playing again properly.

Which is far less impactful because you queue for what you want to play, so you’re not losing much.

If switching to help the team happened in any relevant amount we wouldn’t have wanted role lock to begin with. 9 times out of 10 players do not switch to help, they would just remain on their DPS of choice instead of going on a tank to help the team.

1 Like

I disagree

  1. You’re not always playing what you want (see DPS avoiding queue times as an example)
  2. Not being able to switch to help someone who is under performing causes a feeling of hopelessness and in turn frustration. The only way to try and do something is to ask, usually tell, them to which. This typically only serves to provoke the other person causing everyone to get frustrated and tilted. Put in long queue times with this and it’s miserable to wait 10+ minutes just to watch a Rectangle Man Rein.

That’s no excuse to get rid of the option to flex. People spent hours expanding their hero pools to help their team and what do they get? They get alienated and players like OTPs benefit.

Doesn’t seem fair does it?

1 Like

At the master/gm level I can see how that might be the case. I’m a casual player, my high-water mark was diamond if I recall correctly, back when I played regularly three or four years ago. These days I’m hot garbage, admittedly. I don’t have time to game like I used to, which is one reason I’m not really upset about not being able to enjoy the game anymore.

Yeah, the one sided stomp thing has been a problem at the lower ranks always, I think because that region of the player pop fluctuates in having certain skills so much that one sided stomps are just a fact of life - or at least that is my best guess.

This post summarizes some of my main grievances with forced 2/2/2.

And for me, the matches just don’t feel as fun. Something about 2/2/2 feels stale really quickly. But then again, I was always that guy who never cared if we were 6 DPS or 6 tanks or whatever, my philosophy was ‘if you’re having an impact the rest will sort itself out,’ and ‘if you really want a more balanced comp, switch your own hero, silly!’ I don’t know, the game was just more fun to me. I clicked the queue button and I was loading the map almost instantly to play. Now it feels like a chore. I have to decide “well I feel like playing dps, but I don’t know the map yet, and do I want to wait 10-15 mins for a match that might suck? I guess I’ll…support…and at least play quickly” and then I play an ultimately unsatisfying match. Truthfully I press all 3 roles but that seems to always land me in support.

Ah well. To each their own I guess!

1 Like