Question: If we’re going to force a team comp, why not make it something closer to 1/4/1? Or perhaps 2/3/1?
Discussion: Currently role queue forces the 2/2/2 team comp. Based on the role queue wait times, its clear that the vast majority of the community prefers to play the DPS role. Additionally, there are about as many DPS characters as the other two roles combined. As a bonus, DPS characters generally make for more interesting/fast-paced spectating, which we know is important to the devs.
So if we’re going to force a comp, why not making it something closer to 1/4/1? That would fix queue times, allow the players to play what they actually want, and standardize a non-ideal comp. And before lamenting that “the best/ideal comp should be the one we’re forced to play” please keep in mind that role queue was implemented to end GOATS (which was used because it was actually the best comp) so that argument doesn’t work.
The game clearly wasn’t designed with role queue in mind to begin with (character switching was a major FPS innovation) BUT if we’re going to have it (and I would be perfectly fine with scrapping it altogether) why in the world is it 2/2/2 when half the pool is DPS and DPS wait times are 10+ minutes?
Would you be in favor of a different forced comp, like 2/3/1 or 1/4/1?
They stopped publishing playerbase numbers since role queue was implemented, so we can be reasonably certain that 2/2/2 has caused many to quit (posting a shrinking base is bad marketing). I myself quit when forced 2/2/2 came out, and just tried to get back into it, was reminded how unbelievably unfun it is, and came to post this question. I won’t be playing any more as long as 2/2/2 is forced (honestly there have been many decisions that have made the game worse, but 2/2/2 finally made it unplayable for me). However that’s fine, there are other games I can play, but this forced 2/2/2 decision was so bad that I’m genuinely curious how the community justifies it. Clearly most people here will be in favor of it (I assume most people on the forums are active players) so I’m not expecting unbiased feedback. I’m just curious.
Untrue. The winning team of the stage 3 OWL was a DPS team and they forced Titans and the Shock, the 2 teams that optimized goats to its maximum, to swap off 3-3.
Goats was a symptom of the problem, stacked comps, comps that basically broke the game and made balancing a paradox. It could have been done with non-2-2-2 lock, however that brings us to the next issue.
Role queue was implemented to give ladder some stability and reduce player frustration over what roles they would be playing. The lock could have been done with non-2-2-2 lock but the issue is that every other comp features a solo-something, most likely tanking given the queues, and generally speaking players dislike to play that. To be guaranteed a tank partner is massive blessing for tank players.
You would have to pay me to queue for tank in a solo tank lock.
it is to stop insane team combos and force mroe of a balance but recently tank queue times are higher currently than dps atleast in QP but if you want insane team combos there is qp classic in the arcade
I’m not going to argue about the GOATS issue, the devs themselves stated that 2/2/2 was partially implemented to change the meta at a time when GOATS was the meta. That pretty much says it all. Regardless we can agree to disagree on that point, as its not really crucial.
What I find interesting is the idea that being a solo tank is somehow less fun than having a second tank. Back when there was no forced roles I routinely found myself as solo support or solo tank, and I loved that because it made the role much more interesting since you were so crucial. Being an indispensable part of your team makes it more fun, not less. I think that’s why the majority of players prefer DPS, because it feels so crucial - you’re always actively doing something. It can get downright chaotic and frantic, and that’s when the game feels most immersive.
It seems like this idea that being the only one on your team assigned a certain “role” (which is a pretty contrived idea to begin with) is somehow unfun is a result of the experience being associated with going against a more balanced team than yours - and losing. But if both teams are equally unbalanced then it reverts to being a heck of a lot of fun, because your team doesn’t have some kind of handicap.
Quote them. Haven’t seen any dev saying that at all.
If you liked it, you liked, but generally speaking players dislike it.
Nope, it’s because being a solo piñata is not fun. Having a second tank takes a lot of the pressure away and creates synergies that can be played with.
Losing/winning has nothing to do with it.
I played a heck of ton of solo anything. No, it wasn’t fun for me and it got to a point I flat refused it and drove me to quit the game.
I will not play as the 1 in solo anything, if that’s just me and devs decide it’s the direction they want, good luck, I just won’t be there to see all the fun, which is fine, not every game is for everyone.
I’m not sure how to reply to multiple people in one post, so to Tracer27:
Ok, but can’t we get balance from tweaking character abilities? I’m not sure I understand why our method of balance needs to result in 10+ min queue times for the most popular role in the game that also comprises half the character pool. Seems like a really bad way to balance things. I recall queue times before 2/2/2 being a consistent 10-20 seconds. I don’t get close to that now, even queueing all 3 roles at once.
To Mozts: You’re absolutely right that it comes down to what gamers prefer. It is, after all, a game, and it’s supposed to generate fun. 2/2/2 was the nail in the coffin for me, I tried to come back and yeah, it’s really unfun right now. And that’s fine, I’m one person.
I have a strong feeling, however, that there’s a massive cohort that was also driven away by 2/2/2, considering they stopped publishing playerbase size (they haven’t published it a single time since 2/2/2 was forced). So by the logic of popularity/fun, it’s still a poor implementation.
The whole idea of “roles” at all is a playerbase contrivance. What should have happened (good game design) would have been for devs to recognize that the playerbase was starting to self-enforce this “roles” contrivance inside the game, which was clearly unhealthy (lots of toxicity results from players not selecting desired “roles”) and to react by actually blurring the lines between roles much more. For example, Soldier 76 has a decent heal - that’s a blurring of the lines. They could have implemented much more blurring, and much more creative abilities, and hence stopped the idea of “roles” from metastasizing in the minds of the playerbase. Instead, people have this “uhhhhh I’m under so much pressure I’m the only tank ughghghghg” mindset that doesn’t make any sense in the context of a video game (again, something done to generate fun). Yet it’s that mindset that the devs actually fostered, and that development direction - in my humble opinion - is what stunted this game’s growth and ultimately caused the playerbase to shrink.
If they make the same mistake with Overwatch 2 then I predict a similar outcome. In any case, thanks for the thoughtful responses. I don’t feel they justify the 2/2/2 enforcement but it is what it is. I’ll be playing something else, no hard feelings either way.
He literally stated what the Devs sadi about 1-4-1 and 1-3-2 and it doesn’t meaningfully answer your question? Somebody call the Circus I think they lost one of their clowns
I can’t post links (at least it’s telling me I can’t) but if you Google overwatch player count the first link takes you to Statista which has them graphed.
They stopped publishing them after the last one, May 2018. Whatever happened since then is unknown in terms of playerbase population, but it’s reasonable to assume they stopped because the numbers shrank. We can debate the cause of the shrinkage, but I believe 2/2/2 was a major cause (Brigitte another one, and others I could list but won’t since I don’t want to derail the thread).
Personally I prefer 2-2-2 over the idea of 3-2-1. As an average tank player one of my favorite things about tanking is the interactions and synergies that you can have with other tanks.
Also as someone who plays tanks in low gold and am constantly focused and CC chained, I would enjoy tanking a lot less if I was the only tank on a composition.
With that being said I don’t think 2-2-2 is perfect and needs additional heroes to make it feel better. I think its in the right direction, but still needs improvement. I think additional tank and support heroes would also help alleviate the long wait times that DPS currently have to deal with.
Doesn’t give any information on what made it “bad” or why. I played countless 1/4/1 and 2/3/1 games before forced 2/2/2 and by my own opinion the games were overall better. The only way I might call specific match-ups “bad” is if the other team was 2/2/2 and stomped us (or the reverse happened) but forcing both teams to 1/4/1 or 2/3/1 removes this contrived idea of “balance” from being the reason for the stomp.
