Your bias is showing even more.
Your bias is showing again, and you are getting angrier as well.
What are these weaknesses?
Low clip size is fixed by roll. Mobility is also covered by that (instant repositions are powerful in OW).
I would still say that Ashe is a much better pick than McCree.
She is great mid-long range, has better mobility and a better ult. Even at short range you have an ability that helps you escape to play at the ideal mid-long range.
Nobody should be picking McCree anymore. He has just had too many nerfs that has tipped him too far to being awful. He got badly affected with the nerfs to CC and now his only thing that he has (high rate of fire) is gone.
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As harsh as it sounds, Yes, this is exactly what Iâm saying.
And I do not wish for him to be deleted from the game. That being said, the change never should have went live. And now that he isnât very powerful does not make it more ok that he got this change back when he was A-tier.
But I honestly would not worry if I were you guys. He was fine before this change, and they are simply needing the powercreep from the past 2 years, so with that logic he should be A-tier again. Especially since he ended up with a net buff.
I do understand the frustration, though. And it never feels good to have your character be nerfed. But I think he will end up just fine, especially after the Ashe/ Widow nerfs.
The main point of the experimental card was to reduce burst damage and healing (mainly AoE), particularly from short to medium ranges. I donât think individual hero balance was a large factor in this patch. The widow nerf was probably one of the few directed changes for an individual hero.
Heâs not viable right now and is getting nerfed.
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Whaaaaat? I donât understand your entire post. Mccree A-tier before buffs? Mccree ending up with a net buff?
Point is, people are a little slow in their heads to say it in a nice way, because they think every possible buff to a dps was due to powercreep. Let me tell you, no, not with Mccree. He was BAD. I showcased what went wrong with him from the beginning of the game. He didnât get powercreeped, when he got buffed he actually JUST became viable. Reverting this buff and keeping stun nerf is leaving him in a worse place he ever was despite his ult buffs but lets be honest itâs still not a good ult so yeah.
Now you might say but everything else got nerfed as well. yes and no. Difference though is, other heroes were viable. He simply wasnât viable to begin with. Winrates constantly on the lower side of things since what⌠season 3, 4? prove this
I mean, he says McCree was fine before the buffs, some people just have no clue what they are talking about.
Hey! so, I dont think you should be resorting to insults when people disagree with you 
It just appears to undermine your point.
I understand you are frustrated, and dealing with many people in this thread who WANT mccree to be trash. Rest assured, that is not the case with me. I want the game to be healthy for EVERYONE, and that includes McCree players. So please do not attack me! In fact, to those people being irrational and seeking thier own benefits, its best to not attack them either. Just speak your logic and truth. If they choose not to engage in an honest discussion, then thats on them, dont stoop to that level Trust me, Ive been where you are and its easier said than done but you will be much more happy for it!
Well, remember how you said buffing a character does not equal powercreep? I would challenge that lower than a 50% WR does not mean hes underpowered.
Why would I say that? Simply put, McCree is a very mechanically intensive hero. He is ALSO a fan favorite, and has had a consistently high WR throughout the gameâs history. Now, mechanically intensive heroes with extremely high pickrates are usually very good even WHEN they have a WR below the 50% margin. This is because a lot of people are playing him, a LOT. and this obviously bogs down his WR because he is a very high-skill hero.
If he had a low pickrate AND a low winrate, I would be concerned by his statistics. But that is not the case with McCree!
Now, I think its important to stress the difference between âviableâ and âoptimalâ here. Just because a character was not meta, does not mean they were not viable.
Forgive me, let me explain the buffs he has received and go through them for the sake of overall clarity and to see to it that we are on the same page. Let me just summarize the changes starting with the year 2018:
1.25.0.1 - 6/26/2018
Deadeye
- Range increased from 70 meters to 200 meters.
1.26.0.3 - 7/24/2018
Peacekeeper
- Minimum damage at max range increased from 30% to 50%.
1.29.0.1 - 10/9/2018
Combat roll
- Cooldown reduced from 8 to 6 seconds.
1.31.0.1 - 12/11/2018
Peacekeeper
- Alternate fire damage increased from 45 to 55.
1.34.0.1 - 3/19/2019
Fan the Hammer
- Damage reduced from 55 to 50.
Deadeye
- Damage per second increased from 275 to 550 after locking onto targets for 1.5 seconds.
1.37.0.1 - 6/18/2019
Peacekeeper
- Primary fire recovery reduced from 0.5 seconds to 0.42 seconds.
1.44.0.1 - 1/27/2020
Deadeye
- Firing Deadeye no longer locks the playerâs aim.
1.47.1.0 - 4/29/2020
Flashbang
- Stun duration lowered from 0.85 to 0.7 seconds.
Now, Im sorry, but I simply have to disagree here. You cannot disregard such monumental buffs by clinging to the notion/ stigma made back in 2016 about his ult being âbad,â ignoring all the things that make this ult no longer bad!
I think a huge thing with his ultimate is that starting in 2018, they REMOVED THE MAIN COUNTERPLAY. The only reason people said his ult was bad was because before it was EASY to walk out of the way! Now it is not, which makes his ult VERY STRONG! And I feel like denying this and subscribing to the infamous axiom that âhis ult sucksâ which was made BEFORE these changes, is just plain dishonest. You should at least acknowledge how much his ult has been buffed over time and recognize that, instead of so quickly discarding it.
but even without his ult, yes, he has still received a net buff!
Peacekeeper (1.26.0.3)
- Minimum damage at max range increased from 30% to 50%.
Combat roll (1.29.0.1)
- Cooldown reduced from 8 to 6 seconds.
Fan the Hammer (1.31.0.1, 1.34.0.1)
- Damage increased from 45 to 55, then reduced from 55 to 50.
Flashbang (1.47.1.0 )
- Stun duration lowered from 0.85 to 0.7 seconds.
THESE are the total of the changes between 2018-2020, NOT including his rate-of-fire. The only nerf that persisted was to his flashbang. Otherwise, he has very much been buffed, and i think all his buffs (not even including the deadeye buffs) result in faaar outweighing the flash bang nerf.
personally, I think the most notable buff he ever received was the âMinimum damage at max range increased from 30% to 50%â back in July 2018.
So basically, 40 meters and beyond, he does 50% damage instead of 30%.
*she, you actually just caught me in the middle of explaining myself when posting this comment, so i hope I have made myself clear by explaining my points.
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Because the nerf outlined here isnât a power adjustment to him. No part of the exp card is meant to adjust any heroâs pickrate or winrate. Itâs apparently a first/baby step to global nerfs across the board meant to counteract the insane DPS power currently in-game.
In other words, though I think the devs are doing this rather poorly, theyâre intending for him to stay at his current levels relative to other heroes, theyâre just trying to move all heroes down a few pegs. Thatâs it.
If thereâs going to be any looking into his power level, it will come at a later time. This isnât the patch for that.
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Iâm sorry but how does this makes sense? Making him factually weaker is NOT a power adjustment??
It makes sense in context. Not to be rude or anything, but what part of the third sentence did you need explained to you? Because I already did that in the fourth sentence.
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This doesnât explain the fact that there are heroes with higher pick rate and higher win rate than him who are also fan favorites and require skill.
I have a feeling that you donât play McCree. Iâve been playing McCree since closed beta and his ult has always been mediocre. Is it a bit better now than before, yes I can agree on that, but itâs still bad. The fact that a lot of people use it as a reload is very telling of that.
Ok, no problem. Still I disagree with what you say and the fact that McCree was underperforming both before the buff and also after is telling of how bad he is in general and nerfing him further makes no sense whatsoever.
No it really doesnât, itâs the complete opposite.
Itâs not about âexplainingâ if something is factually mistaken.
Well I donât know how to boil this down any simpler in a fashion that will make sense to you. Perhaps an analogy?
Okay. Ever heard of the phrase, âA rising tide lifts all boatsâ? Think of this but in reverse.
This is a lowering of the tide, dropping all ships.
Also, itâs not factually mistaken. Itâs literally the direct and quoted goal of the dev team, straight from their mouths, that theyâre doing this. So if you think the dev team is lying about what theyâre doing, take it up with them. Iâm only leading you to water, itâs up to you to drink.
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I dont see why this is relevant as those characters are probably overtuned, and donât prove anything about McCree himself. I see it as a non-sequitor, it does not disprove what I said.
I do not play McCree, but your experiences are valid using it and my experiences are valid playing against it. Personally I do not think its bad by any stretch of the imagination as its current iteration. The fact that it offers the utility that it CAN be used as a reload is much more than most ultimates in the game can do, especially in higher levels of play where most ultimates can be easily countered. And in lower levels of play, it can still be used to get kills much easier now.
Fair enough! Thank you for being kind in your discussion. We can both respectfully disagree.
Well the thing is, what you say makes no sense, how can something that makes no sense be explained? You literally say that they are not making a âpower adjustmentâ except that they in fact ARE. You also say that the experiment is not meant to adjust heroes pickrates or winrates, but buffs and nerfs DO EXACTLY that, whether they intend to do that or not is irrelevant.
No they are not, if that was the case there would be a ton more nerfs for a ton more heroes.
I think he already explained that here:
Okay so a simple explanation didnât work. The analogy didnât work. Maybe I can call up the people that produce Sesame Street to do a quick episode for you.
Iâm sorry if this is starting to seem callous, but I literally just explained it in the simplest terms that I think is possible, and youâre still not understanding it. There is a fundamental disconnect here where I canât explain this to you. I donât know what needs to change in order for this to click in your head.
But I think it has something to do thisâŚ
First off, yes they are. Literally their stated goal, posted in the exp notes. Again, you can sit here and claim theyâre bad at balancing. or they chose the wrong numbers to nerf. But you canât sit here and try to argue with me that it isnât what theyâre doing, when I have the next tab open where âMolly Fenderâ of the dev team literally spelled it out. Itâs on this website, from their dev team, in their own words.
To sit there and try to tell me they arenât doing this, is either gaslighting or just plain lying. Either one isnât really doing you any favors since again, I have that tab open, I can see them talking about it with my own eyes. Maybe youâre just so clueless that you have no idea what is going on. Iâm leaning towards that. I donât detect any malice from you. But maybe you just donât want to know whatâs going on? But thatâs still on you.