Rez...It's Still Broke: Mass Rez wasn’t the Problem

[N7Warrior-1327]

Then you would have the problem of it being available too quickly, do you want it balanced or not?

Balanced is fine. I think cooldown rez is not balancable. Rez as it stands is only fair on her ult. I would rather her have call with one Rez ever available in the game, than cooldown rez.
Or Rez be taken out altogether.

Early use of Rez tends to be bad

Teammates dying early tends to be bad in general. But you don’t want to start a fight already short a player.

Early availability of rez has no real impact on the flow of the game whatsoever

Except for punishing that God tier first pick your widow got at the start of the game.

why? if you die you put yourself on cooldown and your attempt of bringing someone back fails, how is it not earned to be forced to strategize around rez??

You’re saying the reward to rez requires work. That was achieved before with her ukt charge. And before invulnerability, her safety was also a big issue same as now. This not the same.as earning the ability itself. You’re arguing earning its use. And its use is therefore comparable. It’s availability is not. Time is the only factor to get Rez. It is not earned by the players good or bad play.

, the slow, channel, cooldown, positioning, target selection and correct use of GA and angelic descent are enough gating mechanics for a single reward

Then so could have making it a single charge ability without slow and cast time.

As an ability, this doesn’t align with any other hero in the game.

Excuse me, what?

Her Rez numbers are the same as before. This Sr reward doesn’t consider where her rezzes are done. Only how many. It being in the ult fight is irrelevant to the Sr system.

TON more valuable than the ability to bring 1

Not inherently. Otherwise moth meta wouldn’t have been an issue. Pure numbers are not the nature of this game . Context matters.

and as you noted it could be charged in under 30 seconds

If that happened, she was a god. Why can’t she be rewarded? Thirty seconds was not the normal Rez charge rate.
You’re biased in saying that it was somehow always the case and ignoring how hard mercy struggled to rez and live before invulnerability. I am not saying Rez isn’t hard to pull off now. I’m saying mass Rez was equally difficult.

But the reward is considerably less for a ton more risk, in actuality and thank you for clarifying, what you’re saying is that mass rez was broken and single rez is less so and you’d like to nerf it even further

I don’t think numbers make it more rewarding. Winning should be rewarding. And valk has a better win percentage than mass Rez. It’s more rewarding at a baseline. In terms of rez, numbers need context. Which is why cooldown rez is more consistent in value than mass Rez ever could be
I don’t think cooldown rez needs to be nerfed as it stands. I think it shouldn’t exist. But if it is, it needs to either have mercy has a base kit with 60 hps, or at 50 hps be almost instant. But that’s another matter.

My focus in this thread is that cooldown rez doesn’t fix hide and rez s core issue of rewarding Mercy for a utility that is unfair to other heroes, rewards bad play, and punishes good play.

[N7Warrior-1327]

Another useless comment. Don’t waste my time or others. Stay gone.

[Havik223-1562]

Destroy Rez as a game mechanic in this game. It takes up way too much power budget and design space.

[N7Warrior-1327]

But healers can’t always keep people alive 100% of the time

And yet meecy is the only person with rez. Why not zen. I cover this in my post.

Mercy’s healing is balanced in a way that unless you’re absolutely stomping the hell out of the team you can’t really be a ‘‘god’’ and prevent everyone from dying, its consistent steady healing, there’s no room to increase it

Thus why she is granted Rez. I cover this in my post and explain why Rez as an ult was a fair way to balance her consistency in her base play with a need for more power in ult play. This is what made mass Rez niche.

[Lias-11313]

I cover this in my post and explain why Rez as an ult was a fair way to balance her consistency in her base play with a need for more power in ult play. This is what made mass Rez niche.

If they just made her single target rez an ult it’d probably be the worst ult in the game and wouldn’t even have a niche

[Megadodo-11847]

I think I know the one you are talking about. That thread was obviously targeting a specific person. Plus, it had nothing constructive in it. Seriously Fulmen’s mock post had more substance. All it had was “Jeff said Mass Rez won’t come back, and that one person who writes long paragraphs about mass rez, you need to stop”. It was justly closed, and it was not a false flag.

I can’t even find the post to review it…

[Undertone-2728]

The harsh reality is that the most of the players that are advocating for the return of Mass Rez Mercy are casuals who don’t want any sort of actual challenge to competitive mode, are unable consistently contribute to a win, maintain their former rank or adapt to play with any other hero competently (including current Mercy) and want free SR for a single button push so they can say they are “Masters” players in OW.

Mass Rez Mercy usage rate was over 50% for multiple seasons. Some seasons spiking as high as 70%!! (S5).

I’m sorry, but the mechanic was broken and that’s why it was removed. That’s why you don’t hear the Devs even say one single word about Mess Rez ever coming back. Because it’s not.

Agreed. There were so many issues with Mass Rez and it was basically “Press Q for something awesome” with almost zero counter-play.

[N7Warrior-1327]

I don’t understand. I agree . What does my block text have to do with this?

[Trifrost-1531]

I know it got deleted probably because it recieved so many flags, but if he’s talking about the one I think he’s talking about, then it was definitely in violation of the CoC.

I think it went along the lines of “Mass Rez is never coming back despite people demanding so. To the one person that makes long paragraphs demanding it’s return, it’s time to give up”. (Can’t be 100% sure since the post cannot be found anymore).

So yeah, it deserved to be flagged.

[Lias-11313]

I assume that’s what you were asking for since this was supposed to not just simply be a I want mass rez thread

[Trifrost-1531]

Then please specify what post you’re talking about? Can you tell me what exactly the post said?

You can’t just reference a vague post being false flagged without actually showing any evidence of it. If you cannot show anything to prove it’s a false flag, or even say why you think it was a false flag, then your entire argument is discounted.

[Bui-1491]

So, are you saying remove resurrection?

[PuffyPony-1639]

I think that’s the gist of the OP, yes

[Hige-1101]

My focus in this thread is that cooldown rez doesn’t fix hide and rez s core issue of rewarding Mercy for a utility that is unfair to other heroes, rewards bad play, and punishes good play.

Ignoring everything else because we disagree on all points

However, while yes, current rez is still a mistake reversal, it’s value is perfectly fair considering all of its gating mechanics, the reward has to be worthwhile and currently it is, you wouldn’t expect Ana to throw her nade and have no effect, abilities are a power spike on heroes’ kits while ultimates are huge power spikes, that’s the point

I do understand you want 60 hps back but such value cannot coexist with rez as it stands, so we agree on that at least, however, I don’t want Mercy without rez

[Dva-21640]

you wouldn’t expect Ana to throw her nade and have no effect, abilities are a power spike on heroes’ kits while ultimates are huge power spikes, that’s the point

This is inconsistent though.

Revive could be argued to be the most powerful part of her kit, whereas Valkyrie functions almost as if it was a watered down secondary ability. It’s value makes no sense when you look at Mercy’s (and every other) hero’s kit.

[N7Warrior-1327]

It is not. My point is to discuss why the rework doesn’t address the core issues seen in mass Rez and how it is a design flaw that is being ignored. You can address this flaw by either fixing the system, throwing the system out (begone ranked!) Or throwing out Rez itself. What matters to me is that the design flaw is somehow actually addressed

, are you saying remove resurrection?

Only if blizzard is too lazy/ refuse to fix the system. I don’t think you should buy a new car just because you have engine troubles. But you can’t drive a car with engine troubles either. Getting rid of the car and getting a bus pass is not my go-to solution, but … It works.

that’s the gist of the OP, yes

It is not.

[Hige-1101]

Valkirye is WAY more versatile than rez is, it increases your survivability greatly, rez on the other hand puts you at risk momentarily in order to show value, that’s why I say it’s balanced, yes the reward is strong but it’s not free, unlike Valk where the requirement is for you to charge it

That’s why mass rez was flawed, all it took was you charging it and after that, nothing, count corpses and you’re good, valk is WAY more interactive

[Lias-11313]

It is not. My point is to discuss why the rework doesn’t address the core issues seen in mass Rez and how it is a design flaw that is being ignored. You can address this flaw by either fixing the system, throwing the system out (begone ranked!) Or throwing out Rez itself. What matters to me is that the design flaw is somehow actually addressed

But the problem is gone

with mass rez Mercy were getting higher SR than they should have

Now they’re not

There’s not really a realistic scenario where a bad Mercy player is going to get off a bunch of rezzes gaining tons of SR while the pro Mercy players keeping everyone alive are either failing to rez/not rezzing at all/going entire games with 0 team deaths

[N7Warrior-1327]

Ignoring everything else because we disagree on all points

Tbh I don’t feel like you’ve even acknowledged the base point of the post and keep directing it to the Rez mechanic itself. This is not a post about the Rez mechanic. It is about Rez reward and how that interacted with bad Mercy play. If you want to discuss Rez itself as a mechanic, I have another post where I detail my thoughts. It is allso a long read.

do understand you want 60 hps back

I do not. I have no preference to how Mercy plays so long as the design Is good. This can include or not include Rez, but I am not limited to rez being a change. She could have her beam removed and only have pistol. If it is balanced and good design, I am fine.

[N7Warrior-1327]

Rez numbers are the same for pre and post reworked mercy. Her Sr gains are the same because that was not addressed in her rework.

There’s not really a realistic scenario where a bad Mercy player is going to get off a bunch of rezzes gaining tons of SR while the pro Mercy players keeping everyone alive are either failing to rez/not rezzing at all/going entire games with 0 team deaths

I’m not saying the numbers should be zero. I’m saying it’s weight is unfair if you do manage to have low Rez numbers. Moreover , Rez numbers themselves don’t equate to a win. This is the point of my post:

Rez itself as a flat variable should not exist.