Rework Mercy 2.0


#21

Yes it does.

She’s not balanced and not fun, that’s the problem. :smiley:


#22

Her current rez mechanic feels wrong with the flow of her kit. If they took that out and replaced it with something else. Her ult I don’t think will feel very appealing to me ever. It feels like im not even in the action anymore when I use it. I am not sure what they would have to do to fix it. I want it to be more in the moment and in the fight.


#23

Is this a better one? from a non mercy player? from your overwatch?.
I wouldnt judge a youtuber good or bad, I do not follow their opinions brainless, I consider the reasons and the logic and then have an opinion. Sorry i do not know if he has prejudices or not or is a good or bad one, I agree with their points anyway in this PARTICULAR video.


#24

I was stating the idea of a soft rework to see if I could hit a reasonable middle ground, but it seems he’s a lump on a log that wont at least agree her kit is kind of trash right now.


#25

I will gladly take suggestions. I find the Overwatch YT quite limited in scope.


#26

Not a personal fan of Your Overwatch, but at least they know whats up with Mercy


#27

Very bad source of OW and Mercy info, but nowhere near the frequently mentioned worst of them all


#28

Thanks for putting this out. I put it on this thread as well:


#29

No thanks. Don’t need another boring unskillful moth meta. Mercy should never be meta and should always be niche due to her insanely low skill floor and somewhat slightly higher skill ceiling.

#MercyIsBalanced

#LetTheGoodMercysStrive

#LetTheBadMercysDropSR


#30

This IS NOT the Moth Meta.
This is ORIGINAL Mercy with Mass Rez, with tweaks to allow people time to counter. Back before Mercy received Invulnerability, and after till Rework even, Mercy was used the least. Lucio and Zenyatta were the go to Healers. Not Mercy, not Nerfed Ana.
It was only AFTER the Rework that Mercy was OP and that was when the Moth Meta came about.


#31

I agree with much of the opening assessment. When he gets into his discussion of his point of view though I think he sort of loses touch with what he said.

Sure. If the Mercy is alive, and in some way neglected or not caught up in say the Grav/Dragon combo, we can think of Mass Rez as a sort of counter. However, that requires he survival while so many of her team has died. That’s not realistic to expect at high levels.

GOATs itself is a zone control type composition. Therefore, if she is having to come back to where her team died, well, she’s just going head into the GOATs comp that just wiped her team, and she will be rekt.

There was a failure in consistency in argumentation there imo.

However, they are correct in the sense that Mercy pairs best with comps that include damage heroes, ofc. Mass rez however, is not a realistic way to achieve that without encouraging the same mid tier problematic aspects that they went over in the beginning of the vid.

The comparison they make between the hiding of Mercy and other heroes with their ults is not valid. Due to the fact that one depends on dead team mates, and literally every other one only affects alive players.

It’s not a simple matter.


#32

Well, many Mercy mains didn’t even use “Hide and Rez”. We may have gotten out of the way when we saw things going south, but so does every other Hero in game if they are smart. Occasionally Mercy would come back from Spawn and, seeing most if not all of her teammates dead pull a Rez. Neither one of those is “Hiding” like Reaper does before he drops down and pulls his Ult, or McCree sneaking around to the back of the enemy team to pull his Ult.
But if Mercy player repositions for one moment, everyone is saying “Mercy is Hiding” when she is not.


#33

Yeah like I think there’s no benefit to trying to accuse people of things and assume stuff. There was a lot of different things going on, different utilization of Mass rez throughout tiers and stuff… Different levels of effectiveness.

Hide and rez was really just trying to control the conditions of the 1:1-5 mechanic for maximum return. It wasn’t terribly difficult to organize either so it was really effective QP and mid tier like ratings.

The real issue with Mass rez is the 1 button press resulting from 1-5 people being rezzed. You then try to game the system to get the best return on it. But you can only get away with it in certain disorganized settings. Outside of those disorganized settings, the utility of it drops off sharply and it basically is rendered down to what E rez is now.

No one benefits from oversimplifying this subject. We have to be blunt and honest about it in a lot of ways in order to have a chance of advancing the discussion. And in doing so, we have to consider all the opposing perspectives. You can’t just continue to be divisive and dismissive and appealing to popularity for over a year and think it’s getting anywhere.

It has been a year now.


#34

I dont like the idea of reworking mersi
I think mersi right now is pretty fun and balance!


#35

Yeah right :rofl:

Hide and Rez was literally the most popular strategy out there and practically every Mercy main used it. Claiming otherwise means you didn’t play much during those times or you are biased. Not to mention the SR abuse.

Not to mention that on most maps even if you killed Mercy first, she could still come back from spawn and do a mass rez regardless.

Mass Rez was unhealthy for the game and it definitely shouldn’t come back. The solution to changing the Goats meta isn’t bringing back something even more unhealthy. And let’s not forget she could even do Mass Rez from spawn on defense on Gibraltar.

People have short memories.

Mercy is balanced now and she is fun to many people. Bringing back something broken just to appease some small group of people who want an OP character is absurd.

Not to mention the most popular rework idea is giving Mercy Mass Rez back for dead ally and at the same time 150 Burst Heal for her and living allies which is mind-mindbogglingly broken. One seriously has to question the objectivity of anyone claiming this is a good idea.

The solution to Goats isn’t bringing back something even more unhealthy.


#36

I think 70 hps would prove to be very OP considering she was already strong at 60 hps and she makes up for it in consistancy which the other two main healers lack.

But agreed, I advocate for a more fun Mercy too


#37

At this point i just enter these threads because i expect someone will always say this, always gives me a good laugh. Especially thinking there’s people who actually believe that, because i’ve seen plenty of Mercy mains telling me to die on the point.


#38

Except it literally wasn’t. This was a misconception spread by streamers and in general how the hero functions. Mercy usually goes unnoticed in the playing field because she doesn’t interact with the enemy players so they don’t pay attention to her until after she resses, at which point they scream that she was a no skill Mercy player hiding. No, she was there the whole time, you just don’t notice her. If she, the primary source of healing on her team, wouldn’t be present in a fight the enemy team wouldn’t even need any ultimates to win a team fight as they are fighting a 5v6 with very little healing, making Res literally pointless if that is the case.
If you’re referring to the fact that a Mercy might have ducked behind cover while an enemy ultimate was in play like yeah? What is she supposed to do, just stand there out in the open so the enemy player can easily kill her? Any hero should avoid getting caught in an ultimate if they are able to, Mercy was just the only hero who was able to make a notable action right afterwards.

That is an issue with the SR system in general and a big problem with the Overwatch matchmaker overall. People should not be gaining or losing SR solely based on their own performance, Overwatch is a team game. Again, this applies to every single hero in the game, not just Mercy. They have since rectified this error in game design for ranks Diamond and above but should honestly do so for Plat and below as well. Overwatch is a teambased game but as it stands Blizzard is rewarding solo play in those ranks.

I agree with you on that which is why adding a cast time to the Resurrect is a very easy addition that would immediately fix that problem. If the Resurrect is interrupted at all during the cast time she would completely lose her Res and have to build up another Ultimate, just like every other hero in the game that doesn’t have an ultimate that activates immediately. A complete rework to fix this very minor issue was not necessary.

It depends on how you look at it. I personally am of the opinion that the game has been severely damaged with the removal of Mass Res. The most obvious reason is how poorly they implemented the rework which completely broke the game for the past year, something they are just barely recovering from right now (at the expense of engaging gameplay). Another is the fact that Mass Res punished a very specific strategy that most people can agree on is bad gameplay, and that is ult stacking. Today there is nothing in the game that counters ult stacking aside from your team doing the same exact thing or trying to outlast the bombardment of damage coming at you (which is understandably incredibly difficult when you have six enemy ultimates hitting you from all angles). That is why ult stacking is now the default way of playing the game and you see everyone utilizing this strategy. I find it to be lazy, uninspired and monotonous, and extremely unhealthy for the game. (Another note: The reason why all these triple tank setups are so prominant is in big part due to the tanks being the only heroes in the game able to survive a lot of incomibg damage at once).

This is false. Prior to the rework Mercy received a nerf that prevented her from using her ultimate inside a spawn room.

For one, Mass Res was never broken. Strong, yes, but broken, no. Mercy did not see play in higher ranks until her rework because of how predictable Res was and Ana was just stronger than her in any way (which is why they gutted Ana to the ground, funny that). I think adding invincibility to Res was a mistake but even after that change she was still a balanced character. Her stats were average across the board up until her rework.
Secondly, it’s clearly not a small number of people that have this opinion as evident by how large this discussion has grown.

Funny how you didn’t mention any of the drawbacks suggested in the proposal. This suggestion is also to try to incentivise Mercy players to not wait for the big five man every time. Even so, it’s just that, a suggestion.


#40

Yeah, it was and people need to stop spreading this myth that nobody did it. Virtually everyone did it, I did it and every other Mercy player on my team or on the enemy team did it. And there are thousands of videos on youtube, posts on reddit and so on and so forth showing this. As if “Go die on point” wasn’t a thing as well. I’ve played the game since beta. Hide&Rez was a thing and anyone claiming it wasn’t either didn’t play during that time or is heavily biased.

Dude… I’m not talking about bronze plays or something. Killing Mercy first was absolutely the rule of any team engagement.

You don’t understand ult economy then.

Don’t play coy, you know what I mean.

That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the specific SR abuse from doing hide&rez that Mercy had.

Mass Rez was unhealthy for the game. Rez-ing from spawn was just one issue among many.

That’s absurd. Claiming that everyone in the game stacks ultimates and uses them all at once is the most ridiculous claim ever. For the simple fact that players generally are not that organized, let alone for other reasons.

No, it’s not. Look up videos of Mercy mass rez - there are examples of her rez-ing from 3rd point defense spawn literally underneath the payload.

Again, that was because a portion of Mercy mains claimed Mercy was supposedly UP. Also clearly not the case if the community, the Pros and the Devs all agreed that Mass Rez was unhealthy.

Brah. I understand you guys want Mercy to be OP and literally played in every game but the fortunate reality is that the support changes are a success. Mercy is fine and balanced and she is fun to plenty of people. The rest of the supports are actually seeing usage.

Mercy has been meta for about 11 seasons and was an absolute must pick for a few of those seasons. Time for the other supports to see some play.


#41

I gotta agree with him. Hero’s should be reworked if they don’t work, not if you yourself aren’t having fun with them.

I really hate playing Lucio, so that means we better get this rework Lucio movement going?