Reverting to Mass Res - And the Common Misconception

So if Mercy really that good for the ult economy and gave such big advantage against bad ult economy, shouldn’t she have been a must pick then?

This is how you should be using Valkyrie. Honestly, people seem to only want to use it as Zen’s Transcendence.

I still don’t see how Valk promotes bad ult economy.

Have the initial beam target receive more healing than the rest.

Between 2 heroes maybe. Not for the whole team.

You really want mercy to be reverted, right? Well, at least to have her mass rez ultimate?

I will give you props for giving it your all. Your username, your very very long post and dedication. You must have really liked playing that Mercy.

I’m sorry, but I really don’t think it will be reverted. The devs seems to want to make the current Mercy work.

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They sure want to but right now, that dedication is evidently absent.

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How did you find these numbers? Not disputing their accuracy, but I’ve been trying to find similar things for many other heroes.

That’s the thing Crusher… Mercy with mass res was never a must pick until her ult was given invincibility. Without the invincible buff, she was no more than a troll pick.

You could find this info online as well if you’re skeptical. But that was part of the misconception (and partly the reason of my thread). A lot of people mistaken Mercy 1.0 or anyone that mentions a revert back to mass res with “Mercy 1.5”, essentially the patch where she was given buffs to stay viable - because she was doing so poorly. Before such a patch, and the SR exploit being a problem after it, Mercy was NOT a must pick. She didn’t have the invincibility buffs until Feb 2017 if I recall. Before that though, she was extremely niche and underpowered, and Ana, Lucio, and Zen dominated the meta.

It was always intended to be a push or sustain, but now that her healing is reverted back at 50hps, her ultimate has effectively received a 10% nerf to it’s impact, which is a problem since most people agree already that it’s already arguably very weak.

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

To be fair, Mercy did became a bit too strong after rework. She needed nerfs. It’s just they way how they nerfed Mercy and how often they needed to nerf Mercy that was done poorly.

To be honest, and this is an unpopular opinion, am I glad she has been brought down to the levels of other support heroes. Mercy still has issues, but she isn’t overpowered nor underpowered.

Yes, I know that. If she did give such an advantage in the ult economy like you said, then she should have been a must pick.

Yet people think a revert to pre-invulnerability rez would be a good idea.

This still doesn’t answer how Valk promotes bad ult economy.

The common misconception is hide and rez wasn’t a problem. Whether you like it or not, I, and many others, used this tactic to great success to win games. That’s just the truth.

Mercy 1.0 didn’t work, so we got 2.0. 2.0 hasn’t achieved it’s full goal (fun factor, as it is pretty balanced, and any problems can be buffed/nerfed, as always). So, instead of going backwards, we go forwards, to Mercy 3.0.

I agree, valk is a terrible ult. Scrap it, start again. I agree she needs more utility. Squeeze in a new ability by say making GA use double jump. I agree rez isn’t “earned”. Make it earned, like on a resource meter. No, it’s not a mini ult, same way Mercy damage boost isn’t a mini ult of Orisa’s drum.

We can rebuild her, but only by going forwards, not backwards.

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That would have been an excellent idea, but they didn’t add it.
¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

That’s assuming your entire team is grouped up in an 5m area.
Your team is now extremely vulnerable to any AoE ult that Valkyrie cannot counter.
Anyway, you’ll have more healing going Moira if your team is always packed.

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see, that is literally self centered did you even read what i said in the second part. people care about mercy and want her to be fun but you mercy mains only understand mercy as fun in having mass rezz and dont want anything else.

this right there is the response people get since the beginning, what do you expect the rest of the community is going to say? if everyone else is willing to make a compromise yet you guys dont the only solution is to not listen or help you guys.

this is the same silly wall dva mains had to face in their quest against the world. you know what? their self centered approach was so blocked by the community they stood no chance.

yes because all you think about how mass rezz is fun for you guys and how you guys play the game. instead of fighting with the community change to a level where she is mercy but does not need the factor of mass rezz.

when tried to learn a bike and fall did you stop learning or kept trying?

it is not showing some kind of anger but rather annoyance, huge difference.
pretending what he said doesnt exist is the same aspect of many mercy mains ignoring that mass rezz is not fun to play against and fun to see it happen.

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\
You dropped this.

“\” is a command or something on the forums so you have to use it twice like this.
\\

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Sometimes you need to take a step back before you can go forward again. Everyone wants to move forward. A common opinion from the #RevertMercy crowd is that the right way forward starts from a crossroads that we already passed. It’s not #RevertMercyAndThenDoNothingElse, it’s a plea to start from her original, less consistent and more skill-dependent design, and then build on that foundation when making future improvements instead of continuing to stubbornly keep trying move forward with Valkyrie as her ultimate.

Why would you keep your car in Drive after you reach the end of the road?

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Mass rez required skill? I must be a pro at the game then lol.

Also, why does the road have to end? We haven’t stopped advancing in technology becuase of how good technology is right now. We push forward, and consider the future. I want a future Mercy that makes us not want to go back to 1.0.

Theres no need to return to the original design other than to appease those that want Mass Rez. Mass Rez wasn’t as problem free as people make it out to be, there was a reason why invuln was added.

Mercy was fun with Mass Rez.
She’s been unfun with everything else.
How am I supposed to ask for anything but Mass Rez ?

If solution A works and solution B doesn’t work, why would you try to make a compromise of both solutions if you can just chose solution A ?

Let me rephrase what I mean.

Every suggestion that includes Valkyrie cannot be fun without being overpowered because of the design of Valkyrie itself.
Impossibility to code comes from the dev who said themselves that chargeable E-rez was to difficult to code.

We’re at a dead end.
Just drop Valkyrie and start over.

That’s literally being passive-agressive. Implying that Mercy mains got what they deserved.

That’s a nice double standart we have here.
What ult is fun to play against ?
None.

Lol thanks I didn’t even realise my fail.

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I believe I said that she is a check for ult economy, not an advantage or disadvantage. Also, you may believe that that would automatically mean that she would be a must pick, but Mercy with mass res in 1.0 directly proves otherwise. So I don’t know really what to tell you. Facts are facts?

Yep, because it is. I most definately think so. And also because, contrary to popular belief, not all Mercy mains want her to be an OP must pick. We just want her engaging to play and rewarding. Current Mercy is neither, hence her 30-40% pickrate drop since the last nerf.

If you can win a fight simply by using more ultimates than your enemy, you are not using ult economy. Valkyrie does not prevent this phenomenon from happening, due to how weak it is. Because there is no check to blowing all your ults at once (since mass res was removed), teams are free to use ults at any time without much consequence (other than whoever did it last wins). Mercy also has no real impact on Valk, and thus, whether she uses it or not doesn’t matter nearly as much as if the other support ults are used. This promotes bad mercies to spam valk whenever they wish, without any real punishments. That is bad ult economy, and why Valkyrie promotes it.

If someone chooses not to listen to an idea, the other party can choose not to offer any more ideas to them and agree to disagree. There is no foul play here. I respect their opinion, agreed to disagree, and moved on. It’s not to be seen as anything otherwise. Sometimes the compromise is merely accepting the differences in the other persons opinion. No wall needed.

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

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Yes, go look at the differences in the number of resurrections between Bronze and GM Mercies right now. It’s a much smaller difference than it was back when Mercy had mass res, and the difference in win rates between the two ranks is also much smaller now than it used to be.

Now look at Ana, who has the largest stat differences of any support across all the skill tiers. That is what a skill-based hero looks like. That is what all other healer designs should aspire to be, and Mercy was actually closer to that ideal before her rework than she is right now.

Whether or not you actually recognize the skill required to play Mercy in your subjective opinion, we don’t have to look directly at the somewhat intangible skill concept to evaluate Mercy’s position. We can objectively look at how consistent or variable she is compared to other healers.

A hero with widely variable output provides a lot more room for differences between good and bad players. Ana provides variable output with her aiming requirement. Mercy provided variable output in the past by being able to Resurrect anywhere from 1-5 people at once instead of just 1 person, and by having the availability of that Resurrect determined not by a fixed cooldown, but by an earned resource instead. While the differences between Mercy players in terms of beam usage were minor, Mercy’s ultimate design magnified those small differences, creating a great deal of variance in Mercy’s overall output value.

Mercy needs to have more variable output. She needs lower lows, and much higher highs. The reason why Resurrect as an ultimate is so attractive is because we already played with it and we know that it accomplishes that goal. It has other problems, but they can be easily fixed with minor tweaks that will only increase the variability of Mercy’s output, and therefore make her an even more skill-based hero.

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Theres no reason one hero should be able to manipulate this. We haven’t had mass rez for almost a year and ult economy still important, etc, etc. I dont see how this line of thought means much.

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The difference in the environments in which these resses take place is immeasurable.

There also seems to be a desire from the devs to maintain Mercy being a very entry level hero. That has to be considered when trying to introduce skill expression to her kit.

Look at Brigitte. Easy hero, crazy win rate throughout all tiers outside of GM, very little skill expression etc. Instead of lowering shield health, they add a second to shield bash.

They clearly want there to be heroes that have consistent value with little demand. Look at their responses to making Rez a resource based ability.