It is a sad time for Rein, he’s being overshadowed by his own squire ![:sob:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/sob.png?v=5" ":sob:")
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Reinhardt suffered from 2 things: Spam and Dive.
Briggy forces teams off of dive, which in turn forces the game into a ReinBriggy vs ReinBriggy (if it wasn’t that already to begin with because players are understanding that it’s better to just start with the stronger team composition).
I’ve said this a thousand times on this forum, but I don’t think people grasp the totality of it’s meaning: Overwatch is a game of Space and Time … Space being the Objective and Time being the Play Clock
Currently Briggy acts as another tank with MORE healing (often being run with 3 supports; her being one of the 3 supports as the tank/support hybrid), this creates pressure on both the Objective and the Play Clock.
Sure your team can push the payload into the last point too, but did you get a GOOD ENOUGH time? She is NOT dependent on him, but he is dependent on her because she brings to the table heals/armor and synergy and CC to anything that gets close (which was dive Rein’s weakness).
This is such an empty statement because to a degree we are ALL dependent on our team, but certain heroes comp better than others and given that (like I said above) this is a game of space and time, you are going to want to bring the heroes that give you the best way of winning. That is the co-dependency. You can’t have Rein without Briggy but you can have Briggy with out Rein.
Again stating the obvious doesn’t reduce my own argument… you are just stating the obvious.
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The nerfs should help alleviate this, Brig will always be a great asset for Reinhardt so his viability will stay high as long a brig is around. I was surprised to see his pick rate skyrocketing because of that, I guess it’s kind of like Pharmercy in a sense?
It’s not the same. You can still play Pharah without Mercy. But if you try and run Reinhardt without Briggy, you are going to be in a world of pain. You will be right back where you were as Reinhardt before Briggy was released (Dying to spam, dying to dive, AND now… dying to CC).
That is major dependency on another hero. The Pharah Mercy combo isn’t anywhere near this. Pharah can make it on her own if she has good positioning (and because she is up in the sky and not a giant target like Reinhardt). It’s very different. But I understand why you saw it as that.
I see where you’re coming from…
But… Brigg, rein Codependency is on another level.
They are both enablers but Brigg completely removes the rein v rein mind games completely by instantly wiping his shield at a low cool down, low risk maneuver that can also be used to disable all of reins abilities. You now NEED a Brigg to open the other rein and or keep the other Brigg in check so that you can use your abilities at the level they were used before Briggs release. This is a huge deal since rein is supposed to initiate team fights but actually now you need a Brigg to initiate an initiating rein?
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This is a very strong point.
no no I agree with what you’re saying, I was just pondering about pickrates and combos making heroes more viable
what I meant was that nerfing briggite should put her in a spot where she should also require rein around to be as effective but also rein should have defensive buffs that allow him to break off on his own
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If you look at what pros are scrimming with they are actually favouring orisa, Brigg, junk, widow, zen, mercy bunkers… Which sounds poor for the Brigg… But if you think about it… What can you actually do to initiate into that? It’s pretty tough.
Zen and D.va (in her current state) aren’t ,that’s an even bigger requirement than rein ,he needs 2 heroes ,not one ,actually make that 3 with Tracer ,she was ran with almost every single dive ,too.
Yes! Exactly! I think you are spot on with this. I’m actually hoping this is what will happen, because this would be great for the game. This would create that cherished diversity and reduce mirror matchups. That would be the most healthy thing for the game. I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. 
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I just played Comp for 2 hours, I preferred scatter arrow. Hanzos new ability littlerally killed my Rein, Orisa and Winston is 1-2 seconds consitently with that new ability.
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Talking about Mercy? She depends on the ENTIRE group to survive.
that alone is enough for me to agree with you.
Every Healer requires their team…
Honestly you guys are either splitting hairs, not understanding the point here, or dont play these heros. 
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At most ranks people are playing compositions that include Brigitte. Thus your chances of seeing a dive comp are much lower than ever. As it stands now Reinhardt has more to gain from simply being played than being played with Brigitte.
You can easily crush the other team’s Brigitte by sheer force given the opportunity. You don’t need another Brigitte to do this.
You don’t need another Brigitte to do… anything she doesn’t already do, really.
It has always been the DPS job to protect the Reinhardt from flankers and overly aggressive players; your average Joe is not even a half decent DPS to begin with.
Nothing about Reinhardt screams “I have to have Brigitte” unless we’re strictly talking in terms of dive compositions.
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Well, this thread is backed by Jelly, and you know what that means😁
Welcome to Jelly and Jams thread stop, order anything you would like,
Popcorn
Soda
Extra salt, pun intended😂
Let’s do this👍
I admire your dedication on this subject. For your sake and the games, I hope Reinhardt gets some attention and receives the help he needs soon.
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YES, I cannot stress this enough. People seem to think she counters the dive characters wich she does, but she also RUINS Reinhardt. In EVERY sense.
Playing against her it’s just accepting you’ll get stunned the whole game and pray that her team isn’t coordinated enough to instakill you wich they usually do. An playing with her it’s almost just as bad, she removes your judgement with her mindless kit, you are now reduced to a tool of hers to get advantage of her stuns.
To me the Rein v Rein with Brigittes takes all the fun of the Rein duel itself. You no longer have the mindgames with the other Rein, you don’t have to keep in mind his charge cooldown to see if he can counter charge or have to keep track of the shatters.
From my experience it’s reduced to unavoidable Shield bash + Charge or unavoidable Shield bash + Shatter.
Reinhardt duels are my favourite thing about this game, and the most fun too. With Briggite and basic coordination they become mindless, uncounterable, frustrating and unfun.
I don’t care she makes Rein “viable” again. Her gameplay is so mindless and efforless she’s turning my crusader into the same thing. Mindlessly take the CC to the face, and then effortlesly do the combo. I had way more fun playing Rein even against Dive for crying out loud. Right now Brigitte it’s a change, yes, but for the worst.
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Literally everything suggests that he is not well designed.
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Only a true Crusader could have made a post like this. I’m sorry my friend, the Rein mind games are lost to us I’m afraid. Gone to the Glory days of old. I will miss them as well.
Live with Honor.
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