Tanks die in less than 2 seconds. Heals are absurdly low. DMG is too high
Fix this.
21 Likes
If they reduce damage there wouldn’t really be any need to increase healing or to make Tanks chunkier.
But in essence I agree.
I am tired of getting blown up in split seconds.
47 Likes
healing is still incredibly high, just remember there was a time where it was just mercy lucio zen and everyone did fine, nerf everything buffs are bad for the game atm
16 Likes
All Atl charges should be “earned” not simply because you poked and charged it up to unleash every hero alt to take the point.
Every hero should be able to earn said Alt slowly.
- Healers need to heal and do poke damage. Maybe enough to kill someone on edge of death but not solo a tank.
- DPS should do damage but have limited survival if solo killing a tank. 50/50
- Tanks should take damage and rarely do enough damage to kill everyone.
Tanks protect the healers, healers keep tanks and dps alive, dps take on tanks and dps separately. Work together to fight and push forward. Game should always been 50/50 and meta shouldnt ever be a thing.
Game released with the idea of, Pick a hero to play and enjoy it. No hero should feel powerful or weak.
Mix and match and try new things.
1 Like
Agree
Don’t agree
Agree
Tanks don’t get bursted because the heal is low, actually it’s higher than it should be. But DPS needs to be tuned down
1 Like
Hmmm…
Let’s go back five years ago.
Reinhardt had 500 health. Today, Reinhardt has 550
Tracer did 6x2 damage. Tracer today, still does 6x2 damage.
Mercy did 50 healing per second. Today, Mercy does 55 healing per second.
Evidence does not look to be in your favor.
Okay, then we’ll just ignore those buffs in experimental.
Typically they can’t solo a tank. No one can.
Damage can’t solo any compentent tank. This is easy to prove with basic math.
Tanks can take thousands of points of damage and still live through it. And are more than capable of one-shotting most damage and support role heroes.
That’s the idea, unfortunately, Blizzard made Tanks to be intentionally stronger than everyone else, hence why we got GOATS and why the composition was changed to 2/2/2. We’ve still got a lot of outliers.
3 Likes
Higher healing in addition to lower damage and tankier tanks is how you get into a “use the most bursty heroes or nothing dies” scenario. There’d literally be no point to sustained damage as it’s doing to do nothing except feed ult charge.
Games like Paladins have it so there’s high TTK and low healing so that things die.
An example of having high TTK and high healing would be WoW RGBs there were expansions/patches where if certain tanks were holding the flag you’d have to wait for stacks of healing reduction fatigue before it was even possible to kill them because TTK was too low in proportion to healing.
5 Likes
We just need to nerf damage, then healing would be ok
still think Mercy needs 60 hps back
1 Like
But healing is already too high in this game. We have to nerf damage and heals together. That way, dps and supports are still proportionately impactful but tanks are able to tank more effectively but need to play smarter due to lowered heals. It’s not a one or the other situation.
Of course we aren’t talking major nerfs to either heals or damage. Just slow reductions. Right now, I think we start by taking area heals down a notch as they are the sole reason sustain dps are bad in comparison to burst dps. From there, whatever is over performing at that point should be brought down accordingly.
Nothing balance wise is as cut and dry as “damage go down, heal go up, tank then tank”
5 Likes
Healing is actually very high, especially since Baptiste’s huge healing buff not too long ago.
How much lower do we need to do go for damage?
Pulse Bomb is 350 now, down from 400.
Widowmaker’s damage is 120, down from 150.
Ashe’s damage is 75, down from 80. Dynamite is down to 50 from 75, cooldown is up from 10 to 12.
For the most part (and most players don’t get this), the Damage-role is traditionally filled with strong controlled burst heroes and very few sustained heroes. Most sustain is actually found in the Support-role or Tank-role (proportionally). Most Tanks are actually controlled burst-heroes; Roadhog, Reinhardt, Sigma, and D.va.
You are correct that sustain won’t do much if healing continues to stack and be as free and flexible as it currently is. One of the reasons why Ana has always been such a key-pick in the higher tiers (and remains so).
WoW’s not a good source for balance in the competitive aspect. So much of it is largely uncontrolled or unregulated to the point where imbalances practically intentionally overlooked for reasons. When, for nearly a decade, you have one class that’s not allowed to have a general ranged ability amongst a series of classes who could outrun that one class in travel forms and still have more powerful healing, ranged and damage; you know there’s a problem with how they considered issues in terms of general balance.
FF14 PvP is not much better here (no one dies, again), but there’s definite intention of making sure every class isn’t superseding others just by having better equipment.
No this is incorrect. Baptiste’s healing isn’t much better than Zenyatta’s. What happens here is that Baptiste is only limited to area effect healing and is magnified by healing in clustered groups. Single-target healing - the bulk of where most healing is coming from - is weak by comparison. If the allied team doesn’t play to Baptiste’s strengths, he tends to struggle. Unless Baptiste can hit two or three targets with every healing shot, he’s not healing much and other Supports will outpace (including Zenyatta himself). This is well-known.
Even then, Baptiste was still healing better last year when Regen Burst was healing 30 health per second for 5 seconds. And he had a large ammo supply on healing.
Either way, damage remains lower or largely static from Overwatch’s launch 5 years ago. What’s going on now, is that Wrecking Ball is now a key-pick and high-speed tactics are in full swing.
Ana is less utilized; so damage-boosting is setup for bursting targets down rather cutting out sustained healing through Biotic Grenades. Targets are dying faster, because of free-flowing and plentiful Damage-boosts. There’s also the fact that Wrecking Ball is an outlier tank that hasn’t gotten many tweaks since his initial release.
What? Baptiste’s healing is far superior to Zen’s. It’s not even close.
Baptiste’s healing essentially doubles Zen’s healing, and that’s just single target.
Unlike Zen, Baptiste’s healing can affect multiple targets at a time
This is also forgetting Bap’s regenerative burst which heals multiple people over time for half of Zen’s healing and heals himself for the same amount of healing as Zen’s single target orb.
So even with single target healing, Bap outmatches Zen by a mile and it’s not even close.
Then you have the AoE healing which I shouldn’t have to mention.
Ah yes, let us cherry pick and conveniently forget about the large nerfs to Echo, the damage nerf to McCree, huge nerfs to Genji, multiple nerfs to Widow, multiple nerfs to Ashe (and a recent buff that went with a nerf but going by the change in pickrate it seems the nerf hit harder), a soldier nerf that went with his recoil change (which I assume is what you mean when you mention Soldier as getting buffed), nerfs to Mei, nerfs to Sym, nerfs to Junkrat, a nerf to Tracer, etc.
Then you have a large healing and ult buff to Baptiste, a healing buff to Mercy, healing buff to Moira, etc.
3 Likes
The combination of reducing damage and increasing healing sounds awful.
4 Likes
We can absolutely agree there. I brought it up because I feel like that scenario is this taken to the extreme.
I wasn’t really thinking specifically about damage heroes. To adopt that argument though, each damage hero has a different levels of sustain vs burst. It’s difficult to speculate when you don’t give specific numbers, but how are heroes like Pharah, Junkrat, Torb, Sym who are focused on dealing lots of trash damage and wearing the enemies down supposed to contribute? Arguably, the high levels of healing and necessity of reliable burst is what led us to their obscurity in the first place. Unless of course you mean increasing their damage at the same time?
Then there is the issue of heroes who rely on bursting people solo on the opposite end of the spectrum who with damage decreases may see their instant kill crutches removed, which makes them nearly as irrelevant.
In the end for DPS you’re just left with high, consistent, and bursty damage. Think McCree and Echo. OR (and I think this is far more likely) you’re left with DPS heroes like Mei that can isolate the enemy team and negate their high healing output (similarly to how chain CCing the enemy healers was key in WoW RGBs).
Edit: I also disagree with your assumption of how Ana is so key in high tiers. She’s kind of peaked around Plat for a long time now.
I never said that DPS didn’t get nerfs as well, but those nerfs tended to happen because a hero was too strong and needed to be balanced (or about as well as Blizzard balances anything) Some heroes like Genji are now just…mediocre whereas Ashe, Hanzo, Mccree, Reaper (who also got an adjustment for killing squishes better) Soldier, and Echo are super strong and are really good DPS picks.
Sym…I used to love playing her but currently her kit feels like its in a weird place and she isn’t using her full potential.
You ignored my point though, about armors effectiveness being practically halved which is in some part the reason why tanks are struggling, I’m not asking to make DPS useless, I just want this game to be balanced so it can be fun as it used to be, I’ll take reduced healing if the tanks can do their job and not die withing two seconds.
Agreed on healing, it really needs to be lowered to make way for tankier tanks or lower dps.
But you conveniently forgot to mention them because it would go against your narrative.
Not at all.
Ashe’s burst got nerfed overall. McCree just got his damage nerfed with a very slight DPS increase with his reload speed, Soldier got a damage nerf, Echo got a bunch of nerfs, and Reaper got a buff for smaller targets, yes, but now does worse against tanks as tanks get consistent health buffs.
Then nerf damage boost and buff the struggling DPS/nerf supports to a point where DPS aren’t reliant on damage boosting and DPS that are currently garbage can be good and this also helps with people’s issue with long ranged hitscan since Flex DPS bring more dynamic playstyles that often disrupt heroes like McCree, Ashe, and WIdow.
Also rework Sigma so tanks can have stronger shields without the threat of Double Shield.
There’s only one support who damage boosts (aside from Baptises Ult) and that’s Mercy, so basically she’s your issue, you want her to have more nerfs than she already had. Don’t get me wrong if you want a reduction on her damage buff fine, let say it’s reduced to 20% instead of 30% that makes Mercy trash tier more than she already is…why? Because but if you reduce her damage buff then Mercy is going to be worse than Zenyatta whose orb does a similar thing, as enemies marked with his orb take 30% more damage.
So to nerf that, you need to nerf Zen to a similar level who is already being railed by almost every CC DPS that we have because he has no mobility or defense to most of the DPS cast unlike the other supports and needs to use his damage orb increase to help him survive flankers.
And if we need to nerf Zen who else needs nerfing? Moira’s damage? Baptiste’s? Brigs? it’s a long slippery slope that we will end up going down trying to balance everyone at once and I feel that there is no right answer at the moment. As much as I dislike Blizzard’s stance on balance changes I don’t envy their job either.
Sigma is weird and I agree he needs some sort of rework.
yes, no, yes
not gonna happens though, it’s not the direction the devs want and not “entertaining” for esport i guess
You forget about Zen
Though it is entirely possible that I am going after the wrong issue and the damage boost is just a product of a larger issue 
What do you mean “even more nerfs”?
In the past two years, she has gotten nothing but buffs
1.30.0.1 - 12/11/2018
Valkyrie
- Ultimate cost reduced 15%.
- Healing per second increased from 50 to 60.
2 healing buffs
1.41.0.0 - 10/15/2019
Valkyrie
- The extra beams created by Valkyrie now ignore enemy barriers.
Another healing buff and a damage boost buff
1.48.0.0 - 5/19/2020
Caduceus Staff
- Healing per second increased from 50 to 55.
Yet another healing buff
She’s currently meta. Not even close to being “trash tier”.
What year are you in? 2018?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope