O, I was going to make a change where this doesn’t impact soldier and bastion but forgot to do so.
My apologies, just everyone seems to lump Soldier with McCree and I really don’t want to see another unimpactful DPS being nerfed into the ground, I’d rather separate the two so McCree is more close-ranged designed and Soldier is midrange
That being said losing their fall-off would make Widow more viable so it’s a bit of a double bladed sword there
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[quote=“Pearl-11350, post:1, topic:587921”]
Dm buffed to 15m from 10m
[/quote
Since DM nerf Dva got plenty of buffs, you cant just revert this nerf without reverting some buffs she got
Genji doesn’t need the ult charge nerf, the damage buff alone is ok. The reason why Genji was able to get so many blades before was the firespeed and not the damage buff
This would be a Nerf for Orisa, fortify is more important then some shield HP
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Any change to ult charge gain should come with a ult charge nerf although it should be 5% and adjusted from there later on.
But why? Genji is really not good, just a straight buff doesn’t hurt him. Also increasing damage by 3% doesn’t justify a +10% ult charge increase. The Ult charge gain he gets is just so small, you don’t need to nerf blade cost
That’s why I said 5% and adjust from there. It’s better to have a reduction in ult charge for a limited time then have ultimates happen too frequently for a limited time, generally because Blizzard is potato slow. It’s not even about Genji, it should be applied for every character that gets an adjustment that would effect ultimate charge.
This has been an issue with Blizzard time and time again.
Again, you dont try to buff him, you try to make a small rework. My argument is that just a pure small buff is not bad for genji. Do we really need this 5% ult charge decrease?
Well a couple of points to note here
- Genji isn’t that bad atm
- The one damage would be pretty significant, because it brings back his combo
- I think 5 - 10% ult charge would totally be fair in compensation for bringing back his combo
To keep the same charge rate he would need a ult charge decrease. Ultimates are overpowered across the board and they need to fix that issue but rarely do besides reducing ult charge which does nothing to their power.
If they won’t reduce their power they can at least keep the charge rate consistent.
So because Hero is not total trash even a minor buff needs compensation?
This combo is extremely unreliable and a nice to have rather than a huge buff.
WIth so much passive AoE healing in the game, the good aim you need to hit all shurikens and the risk of the very small distance it isn’t reliable at all
Why should you do unnecessary changes to Hereos? You balance a Hero to either make him stronger, weaker or fix a core problem.
This change would do nothing of that barely change how Genji feels
If you want to buff Genji without buffing his ult give him his 30 damage shurikens back instead of 29 and then nerf his charge rate by 5%, so his combo is somwhat reliable. Or just increase his firerate again for a even bigger ult charge reduction
25 damage per target, plus risk, every four seconds. You’d exceed the value of Storm Arrows with two casts hitting up to 4 targets each. Or, by getting environmental kills off Tanks or even one or two targets after two casts within an 8 second time frame.
Storm Arrows isn’t risky to use except in specific cases, and the challenge to perfectly aim for a body shot or even a headshot (not to mention consecutively) pairs out well with its 10-second cooldown. Reducing the number of arrows, or chances to score a headshot with it is putting it in serious consideration of not-being-worth-it the cooldown; especially in relative value compared to some other abilities.
A finisher for what? Hanzo can kill targets with a headshot, difficult, yes, but he can still do it. He does about as much damage Sigma does, in one body shot, but with substantially higher aim requirements. Storm Arrows isn’t improving it, but it is giving Hanzo more chances to land “something” and improve his consistency.
If you wanted to do this; fine. But you’d have to increase the damage of each arrow, or dramatically lower the cooldown. A damage range of 70 to 420 every 10 seconds is incredibly bad, especially when most of that damage isn’t guaranteed.
All this is downplaying Soundwave relative to Storm Arrows.
You don’t have to aim perfectly, you don’t need a single headshot, you can miss 40% of your shots and still get a kill on 200HP heroes.
How is it not worth it?
But that’s not how the game works, you don’t have the choice to swap out storm arrows for Soundwave. You don’t even have the option to pick Lucio instead of Hanzo, if you’re in the damage queue it’s the damage heroes who compete with each other.
Hanzo uses storm arrows in combination with his 125 damage primary arrows, potentially 250 damage per hit.
His 250 damage headshot with primary arrow!
Even landing bodyshots that’s a total of 600 damage following a headshot, I can attest many Hanzo mains think this is OP and obliges them to use cheese to oppress tanks.
Yes, sigma’s primary fire is way WAY harder to aim and much slower as well and of course cannot headshot.
It you increase it by even the tiniest amount of up to 75 damage then you can shoot 1 bodyshot for 125 damage then spam 3 arrows and you only need to hit one of them - mere 33% accuracy - to hit the 200 damage threshold. 75 damage arrows mean 150 damage headshots, too good against Tracer.
This is too powerful, you can just poke for headshots and even if you miss and land only a bodyshot you can immediately follow up with spam arrows.
No it’s not it’s still the single most powerful cooldown ability in the game.
Nothing else comes close to the high of 420 damage with headshots.
Not even a full duration focus beam on a low health target which is far more limited than Storm Arrows. Even Echo’s sticky bombs only add up to 180 damage and they’re on a 6 second cooldown.
If the Storm Arrow cooldown was reduced to 6 seconds then the average damage rate of the ability alone would be the same.
It takes 1.25sec to activate and shoot 5 storm arrows then a 10 second cooldown, so 350 damage every 11.25 sec, that’s 31.1 damage per second.
It’d take 0.75 sec to activate and shoot 3 storm arrows, then with a 6 second cooldown would be 210 damage every 6.75 sec, the very same 31.1 damage per second.
You mess with the per-arrow damage you screw this up.
Leave the per arrow damage the same. Just reduce the cooldown to 6 seconds to make it work for 3 arrows.
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Dynamite: Up to 50 damage per target (300) and additional 100 damage over 5 seconds per target (600). 12 second cooldown
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Firestrike: 100 damage per target (600). 6 second cooldown
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Soundwave: 25 damage per target (150). 4 second cooldown
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Swiftstrike: 50 damage per target (300). 9 second cooldown
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Concussion mine: Up to 120 damage per target (720). 8 second cooldown, 2 charges.
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Seismic Slam: Up to 125 damage per target (750). 6 second cooldown.
Even if the averages skew downward; even if you’re only hitting one or two targets per cooldown, or even hitting only the bare minimum, it adds up, relative to the cooldown and the reward is given, even if partially.
At 10 seconds, with 5 arrows, Hanzo could hit one of them for 70 damage and miss all the rest. In other cases, he could hit all of them, but never critically hit. The damage range makes up for that cooldown, but the cooldown still requires some level of skill and timing for each arrow. Not every ability functions like this, some do share similar skill checks.
If you’re worried about Tanks, don’t. They have plenty of countermeasures to stop cooldowns like Storm Arrows. Between barriers, fortify, defense matrix and related, not to mention armor and their own killing power; they aren’t going to suffer or struggle with dealing with that. And if you’re concerned abotu focus-fire, from 2 or more targets on a tank; isn’t the fact that at least 1/3rd of the team taking on one of two Tanks considered a worthwhile exchange in value?
Now this brings a smile to my face.
Bonus if we add a buff to fire rates by 0.05s and nerf ult charge to 15-20% and that would make things better 
i disaggree , i think my least favorite thing in this game is shooting shields.
This argument is blatantly insincere.
Okay if you REALLY think that is better let’s not reduce storm arrows by 2, let’s reduce it to only 1 single storm arrow. It cannot go through barriers or walls but the sole buff is that it can pass through enemies.
So if 6 enemies all line up in a row just like they’d line up for genji to swift-strike through all of them it will pass through all of them and deal 70 damage to each of them. so 6x70 rather than 5x70.
There.
I hope you’re grateful for me buffing storm arrow.
You’re not going to consider that a buff, you’d be mad as hell if that happened. Because you don’t really believe in this reasoning of thinking trash damage done to multiple heroes is as good as the same amount of damage done to one hero.
No it doesn’t.
If you’re only hitting 1-2 targets with Soundwave it is NOT adding up.
Special pleading.
Genji Swift strikes through the entire enemy team lined up in a row but your thumb is pressed down so hard on the scale Hanzo supposedly can’t hit more than 20% of his arrows even on large slow targets like tanks.
This is gish galloping.
This is a bombardment of weak non-arguments, this is just reference to what could be arguments and begging the question “oh of course all this is enough” without making any actual argument.
Until you say why any of those are so good I don’t have to refute it.
Hanzo’s storms arrows are too powerful even 1 vs 1.
So you can forget about that canard.
Dynamite is dot, storm arrows is burst.
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So are we also widening the arrow’s hurtbox and allowing refreshing in case of elimination?
Swiftstrike is 50 damage because it can hit multiple targets and because it refreshes off cooldown. So if Zarya Gravity Surges and catches all the targets in it, and Genji slices through it with Swiftstrike that’s 300 damage, one target dies, and Genji slices through against for 250 damage, that’s now 550 damage done. It starts to add up.
If Genji’s Swiftstrike only hit one target and did not refresh on cooldown, both it’s cooldown and damage would likely increase. Given how easy it is to land the ability, however, I doubt it’s damage would increase that much. Storm Arrow - and literally every other ability designed - work on the same principles. High singular target damage; weighed against risk, difficulty, and paired with cooldown relative to frequency, risk and damage output.
Looks like the averages are low 30s, actually. With 11% of the critically hitting. So out of 100 arrows, and 33% of them hitting with an 11% chance of critically hitting is 3 arrows. Or less than one-half of all the arrows fired are actually a critical hit if only a 3rd of those arrows are actually hitting.
If we factor that into Storm Arrows, and say we improve the chance to hit to 40% of five arrows, that means two are likely to hit and the remaining three are going to miss. So you’re getting 140 damage reliably every 10 seconds. If crit-chance remains the same (11%), that’s about a quarter of those arrows actually headshotting. So the damage range is 70 to 280, with the higher numbers decreasing in chance variance.
So what about the Tanks? 350 damage to a barrier isn’t going to destroy any of them and Hanzo will be out of a cooldown. Against armor, damage is reduced by 5 for the first three shots against armored targets (all of them have 150 armor now), so you’re looking at 195 damage and 140 damage unresisted for a total of 335. Add in Fortify 65 is reduced by half or 33 damage; comes out to be 198.
Say you decide to aim for the face, and there’s no chance of barrier, fortify, defense matrix, earthshatter, projected barrier, kinetic grasp, primal rage, or healing involved. A completely ideal situation. 140 damage is still substracted by 5 for 135 damage per shot for two shots. 270 damage is registered and the remaining 420 is unimpeded; that comes out to 690 instead of 750. Congrats, you managed to kill a Tank. It only took getting rid of the barrier/fortify/defense matrix/kinetic grasp/projected barrier/healing and disabling ultimates and abilities to do it. Now in 10 seconds; you might be able to do it again.
Except under the discussed balancing idea of limiting to 3 arrows; it won’t happen, ever.
With Ashe; let’s say I never get full damage off of dynamite. Let’s say I only hit three heroes and each one gets the absolute minimum damage received. That’s 20 damage per target, so 60 each and 100 damage burn each for 360 damage after 5 seconds. In seven more seconds, I can do that again; and I’ll be hitting for more damage that Storm Arrows will ever do.
With Junkrat; let’s say I never get full damage with Concussion mine. Let’s say I always get the minimum and can only reliably hit 2 targets for each charge. That’s 30 damage each, or 60 damage. I do it twice and I did 120 damage to those targets. In 8 seconds I’ll have another charge for another 60 damage and I’ll have totalled up 180 damage in less time than it took for Storm Arrow to maybe get 210 damage.
Let’s say I’m Doomfist; and I’m going to Rocket Punch and Wall Slam one target every 4 seconds. That’s 250 damage and in 8 seconds that’s 500. I’ve already surpassed Hanzo’s 10 second cooldown. But, let’s say I don’t get the wall slams, I’ve done 200 damage in 8 seconds. Just 10 damage shy of Hanzo’s 3 Storm Arrows. With Seismic Slam, it’s next to impossible to get 125 damage out of it, but let’s say I get 70 damage and hit three targets with the first cooldown. I just did 210, and in the next cooldown, I’m going to hit one target for another 70 damage. I’ve already past Storm Arrows damage faster than it’s cooldown.
Let’s say I’m Reinhardt, and every 6 seconds I throw out a firestrike and I randomly hit one or two targets over the course or 30 seconds. That’s five firestrikes for 500 damage minimum. 50% chance hit I hit an extra target. That puts the damage range between 500 and 1000. In 30 seconds; Hanzo fires three sets of three storm arrows; 210 damage and 50% chance that one of those arrows from those three sets critically hits. That puts the damage range between 630 and 1050. Completely outpaced.
Storm Arrows is a 10 second cooldown. 1 arrow per quarter second, 5 arrows total, so it’ll take 1.25 seconds to unleash all arrows for up to 350 damage non-critical. Up to 700 damage. Duration is 5 seconds.
Orisa’s barrier is 600 health every 10 seconds. Fortify resists 40% all damage for 4 seconds. Par the course, Hanzo will die to 2 seconds of fire.
Reinhardt has a 1600 health barrier, regenerates 200 health per second after 2. It’ll take more than 20 seconds for Hanzo to pierce this barrier, Hanzo will die to 2 Firestrikes.
D.va has Defense Matrix which will destroy all projectiles within 10 meters of her for a maximum duration of 2 seconds with a cooldown of one second.
Roadhog has Take a Breather (TAB), halves all damage and restores 300 health. Last 2 seconds, and has a cooldown of 1 second.
Sigma has Kinetic Grasp and a 700 health barrier. KG lasts 2 seconds, absorbing every projectile and converting 60% of its damage to health. KG has a 12 second cooldown, barrier has a 2.5 second cooldown or 5 seconds if destroyed.
Zarya has a Projected Barrier and Particle Barrier, they absorb up to 200 damage or last a duration of 2 seconds. Projected has an 8 second coldown and Partcile has a 10 second cooldown.
Wrecking Ball has an Adaptive Barrier that grants 100 shields plus additional 75 barrier per enemy target near him (up to 550). Can immunize against critical hits in Ball form. Adaptive Barrier has a 7-second duration and a 15 second cooldown. Ball form lasts indefinitely.
Dynamite is an area effect ability. It does up to 50 damage upfront and then 100 damage over 5 seconds (or 20 damage per second). While the burn effect is not reduced by armor, dynamite’s initial explosion is.
No, practicality has NOTHING to do with your consideration.
All that has to happen is it be technically possible for them - in any orientation at all - to each take the damage.
But sure, even if it had a large hitbox… you wouldn’t want this. You covet that high damage of multiple rapid storm arrows.
What are you talking about!!?!
How does one target die, think about this, you only get the 300 damage number because each only takes 50 damage. You can’t borrow damage dealt to one enemy and give it to another enemy.
Your logic fails immediately.
I’m not reading any more because it’s all based on that arbitrary contrivance.
You can prove any nonsense by accepting a false premise, it’s almost impossible to come to a logical conclusion bases on a false premise.
You wouldn’t use Storm Arrows on barrier, you’d use them once primary fire has worn down the barrier.
A single firestrike has a 0.48 sec cast time then a 0.64sec recovery. Hanzo can be holding primary arrow to shoot the instant firestrike is raised then follow with storm arrows. Just 3 storm arrows where only 2/3 are headshots will eliminate Rein.
You just said Storm arrows has a 5 second duration. He can just wait out DM then shoot as soon as it times out.
A cooldown of WHAT?!?
Same problem. Storm Arrows lasts for 5 seconds.
Even if KG comes up immediately after barrier is lowered then after 2 seconds barrier hasn’t recovered at all and can’t be recalled for 2.5 sec. If the barrier is broken it cannot be recalled for 5 seconds after being broken.
Still 3 seconds remaining on Storm Arrows.
If there’s more enemies to trigger Adaptive Shields then there’s more enemies to shoot the shields off.
Also becomes quite useless at dealing damage, especially if you realise the grapple hook limits where the ball can move at high enough speed to deal boop damage.
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