Rage inducing Symm experience

General Discussion
41

I hate her current tp because of infinite tp’s cd mechanics too (but I love the ability) but tbf, old sym wasn’t really all much better since old sym basically plays the same way as infinite tp sym anyways because neither can’t get to where they want to be when they (should) want to.

design-wise yes it isn’t tp’s fault because it’s supposedly there to make sym more independent.

current balance state-wise it is partially tp’s fault because its crappy cd mechanic makes her need to overcommit to a tp placement with high down time cost. with old 3.0 tp sure it’s 12s until next cast but that started from placement i.e. it ticka away as you’re independently getting value from it to get another cast sooner to continue doing more actions.

unlike current tp which is do something, then have a 12s waiting downtime before being able to do something else.

42

Completely agree- just font enjoy playing her now

43

I always found the high ground tp on Hanamura only works when I have a team that was already communicating in the spawn room. If no one has a mic i find it better to just tp to point.

44

That’s why symm is so bad, but if you’re not with a 6 stack who’s not willing to cooperate, let symm sit at the third most useless hero ever (except for being the uberdriver of everybody, be it owl or ladder).

45

This is exactly why I loved Sym 3.0 – her teleporter was great. Problem is, like OP mention, people just don’t want to use it.

The old 3.0 teleporter at least allowed Sym to make her own plays and bounce around more or have it as a form of mobility/escape if she is predicting a dive (Never get caught by a Doomfist).

The new one solely relies on the team making the most of it and 9/10, they just won’t. It makes Symmetra slow and stings even more to not get some sort of reduced cooldown for self-detonating it (2 second cooldown turns into 12 seconds!). Double stings when my ally is playing Sym and leaves their teleporter planted near point A, meaning it isn’t off cooldown when we need it…

It just feel like the devs decided to change it because “infinite teleporter” was requested so many times by people that start their threads with “well, I don’t play Sym but…” and people with 1.0 nostalgia.

Besides that, I don’t expect any other buffs to her kit besides beam buffs because that’s what people keep throwing out. “Just a bit more range, so I don’t have to use the rest of her kit and can pretend to be Soldier” Meanwhile, Echo enters with a really solid projectile weapon.

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46

if nobody is using your tp than your Sym is defacto not working for your team.
The dude that typed/said that worded it poorly (cuz commanding people to switch is a form of abusive chat) and you took it as a personal hit.
Either way don’t take things personally although it’s perfectly fair to be tilted by not being able to capitalize on a hanamura point 1 tp.

Also expect this to happen multiple times. Sym teleport is not going to work 100% of time in your hanamura games. Don’t get tilted over it, and don’t let “switch” people get to your head - you are not a loser/their B word if you decided to switch after being told no matter how it may seem to you/them. If you think they are wrong - continue as you please and mute them if they can’t take it (sometimes these people are ofc wrong).

Be above that. (just advice against tilt)

47

Sym 2.0 played very differently from 3.0. She was a lot more focused on zone control and planning in advance.

I’ll not talk about Shield Generator because everyone kinda agree that was possibly the most OP ultimate in the game until Valkyrie 1.0 arrived. But even the rest of her kit had a different focus than the same-named ability in the rework.

Her orbs were great for zone control, by both being slower (thus, lingering longer as a threat) and by being unstoppable by shields. Having six turrets allow her to cover a lot more area where she either get information of someone approaching from that angle, or force the enemy to not rush into her team territory. Even the autolock beam, for all its issues (especially at higher ranks), was usually enough to make most flanker to at least hesitate into jumping into her, fearing they might choke the attack or jump into the middle of her nest, which made her a nice backline defender to your Zen or Ana.

Sym 3.0 can’t do any of those with the same level of effectiveness as she could during her 2.0 days. She do have her own strengths, but this change in scope is the main reason why I consider Symmetra deleted, and Sym 3.0 a brand new hero that was built upon the same concept, and is reusing her cosmetic assets.

The best comparison would be if, instead of getting Ashe as a new character, the devs decided to rework Widowmaker to use Ashe kit. It’s still a sniper, it still fits her lore (eg, using venom instead of fire on dynamite), but it’s not Widowmaker. It’s a new character.

48

This happens all of the time in the lower ranks, but I think you can climb by learning how to ignore your teammates when they say stupid stuff. If this is hard, I know your struggle because I was in gold for almost 10 seasons because I didn’t know how to control my frustration.

49

I could see for myself that its not working. But it clearly wasnt my fault, but he worded it as if i was to blame. Thats what tilts me.

50

Did they ever agree to your plan? Maybe they wanted you to go with their plan instead?

I know it’s sub optimal, but I would rather see a team of 6 go with the same plan than a team split up by 2 different plans.

51

3.0’s design in general literally was 2.0 but sped up because of how tp (supposedly) lets you get to where you want to go (whether to flank, escape, move territy of turrets, support team or whatever) without need the team to give you space and facilitate your actions which old sym and now infinite tp sym needs due to her own inability to do so.

the former (i.e. back when we had finite 3.0 tp) definitely was focused on zone control and planning in advance. she simply was more fluid (i.e. not static) about her territories/zones and can and should fit more plans or actions in a given time period.

without that tp cast frequency, she simply reverts back to gameplay of distanced inconsistent orb spam tower defense tower hero that just waits for a golden w+m1 or flank opportunity to be served to her on a silver plate… which legit was old sym.

they really weren’t. shield piercing was the only aspect that was better for zoning but lingering longer would make it better if it lingered longer in valuable places like junkrat projectiles do. orbs just fly past regardless and they aren’t large enough to compensate for their snail pace either (wouldn’t be fair anyways because the size to make up for that slow speed will need to be huge).

like do you dodge a projectile that’s ages away when it’s travelling at snail pace or do you dodge it only when it’s close enough to matter? and old orb RoF was 2s charge up + wind down → like >=20m between orbs.

legit a hitscan weapon would achieve a better zoning effect because them being more consistent to land shots make them more threatening to make you take cover (e.g. look at snipers) unlike sym’s orbs which one can just side step and have another 20m or so to wait and side step another while remaining in the open. the only things old orbs actually zoned better would be bastion, bunker comps and maybe a shielding rein i.e. heroes that don’t move (much) and that’s only due to shield pierce.

you can’t deny how similar infinite tp sym plays to old sym tho as described above.

52

You really need to get used to this in overwatch X)
And trust me the worst thing that you can do in that scenario is defend yourself in game, because then instead of having only you tilted by it (and I’m sorry but this is purely your ego, they wrong to talk like that - I’m not disputing that, but you tilting has everything to do with ego), now the entire team is tilted.

It happened to me yesterday 3 times
One players says to another: Zarya use your ult, why aren’t you graving.
Zarya loses her mind and starts to criticize each person for his Rein play, then another person defends Rein, then he attacks that person and now nobody is playing the game and everyone is fighting and I just want to bash my head against a wall… Match lost

Second match: We lose one fight. I’m on dps, one player says "Dps you gotta kill Pharah (Btw I’'ve killed Pharah twice, and we only lost the fight cuz both dps died and we are getting zero pump and sustain on flanks, cuz it’s gold elo so supports are passive af)
What do I say: “I will focus her”
Everyone is happy and we win the match. Nobody blames anybody.

Match 3: “Dps you need to switch”
I type: “yep” and I switch cuz to be honest that person was right (even though I was planning in switching anyway)

see how it works?
You never attack back if you want to win the match.
But if you want your ego to win the argument, then you’re gonna have to compromise the entire match.
You’re gonna fail at this and get tilted, that’s life, but try working on it - it will make the game better

53

You are wrong about the orbs for the simple fact that, just like most people, you forget she isn’t holding the choke alone.

Her team is shooting the choke at the same time, her turrets are spread to finish off anyone dumb enough to eat the damage that isn’t a tank, and I can’t count how many times I faced overconfident tanks that were able to facetank the orb, but their big bodies literally didn’t allowed their teams to see the orb until it suddenly appear from their backs.

The orb alone was a terrible weapon, just like Junkrat grenade alone is a terrible weapon. But you pair it off with the rest of her kit and her team just doing what they are supposed to do anyway, and you get a lot of zoning for the simple fact that you can’t stop the orb unless you burn Dva matrix or have a very coordinated Genji to deflect it when your team is about to cross the choke (and even then, at least the tank usually gets damaged).

The current orb don’t compare with the old orb. It’s currently a slower Pharah rocket with minimal blast and less angles to exploit. I miss a lot of stuff from her Sym2 days, but the orbs are definitely the thing I miss the most.

54

That’s why Symmetra’s kit is bad designed. Or at least her teleporter.
She can’t use it in spawn because of weird interactions with other heroes.
–> Bad design

55

that’s legit not really saying much. like side stepping orbs, and we’re not even talking huge side steps, legit isn’t that much of a hindrance to be called “a great amount of zoning”. even when “combining with turrets” it’s not like heroes couldn’t just side step while dealing with turrets either esp since back then they were 1hp each.

and it’s not like teams huddled really close together nor closely in a single file line to go through chokes i.e. more often more spread out → get more angles to see oncoming fire (orbs).

if “combining orbs with other heroes’ weapon fire” is a valid argument to say orbs was at good zoning then you might as well say every damaging weapon fire iare excellent at zoning because “they can be combined together to zone the enemy team through the choke” esp if they get good angles around their shield.

e.g. a flanking widow or hanzo, soldier or mccee will zone much better than orbs because they have more threat factor due to burst kill and more reliable to hit, and yes this point is already in consideration of teammates’ shooting as well.

old orbs was only good at zoning things that didn’t want to move or moved really really slowly e.g. bastion.

first off I never claimed current orbs are good, in fact I’ve been saying multiple times and various threads to buff its projectile speed.

secondly, old orb was much slower in both fire rate and projectile speed nor did it have splash so saying “pharah rockets better” isn’t really making a point here.

like when looking at old orbs, it doesn’t make sense that they’d zone well with low fire rate, low projectile speed AND not a high hitbox. like if you want it to be good with area denial it needs to be able to cover a good amount of area whether if that’s through fire rate or projectile size. like looking junkrat’s primary his may be slow but he can spam quite frequently and with splash and how they can linger on the ground after they land, junkrat can aggregate them to cover a larger area in 1 time. and in “combining with team shooting” as you “argue” or with his other abilities in his kit, he still achieves.much better zoning than sym orbs. hence old sym orbs simply weren’t good at zoning. it was only good at zoning stationary or near stationary targets.

thirdly, angles are defs abusable if tp wasn’t so gimped by infinite tp nerf but this is what happens when people want a static tower defence hero despite how fast paced the game is and has progressed to be even faster with shield nerfs and lower ttk.

56

Honestly you should support your main hero. Thats true. But its been so
Many years and with sym its disappointment. Again and again.

I cant warrant playing her. Not until they rework her- which they wont.

All that effort and her pick rate is what exactly 3rd worst? I think they have no choice but to change her in ow2

Id love to start playing her again 1 day. When theyve changed her. But not like this… shes just a mess and its so sad

57

this is why people in solo qeue don’t usually play symmetra unless they can withstand this pain.

but as is, the game is suffering due to the solo qeue experience being the most prevalent one, and it’s not exactly streamlined to be the best alternative to play the game in.

58

I might have failed at explaining my thought process. So, let me try again.

Sym2 orbs were slow. Thus, it was very easy to dodge them alone, and because of that, many players didn’t considered her orbs a high threat. So, it was very common for the enemy team to focus on the other stuff going with your team. Ways to get angles on Rein/Orisa shield, locating our Widow, searching where our healers are to dive them, and so on.

For some dumb reason, and I can’t really explain how, simply the fact that the enemy team start putting your orbs in the low priority mental process, they used to forget to dodge them. Often. Until they get killed once or twice by a random orb they forget I was constantly spamming. And when that happens, they start hesitating going through the line I spam the orbs, or they put me as high priority target and I can lure them to my nest, or simply stand close to my team so that they can’t properly focus me.

That hesitation, combined with the raw power of the Shield Generator and how the rest of her kit punished hard people who attacked without knowing all details of my nest, made the rest of my team highly effective on whatever they were trying to do at the same time.

She wasn’t single-handling zoning the whole enemy team by herself. That was not her role. She was a support hero. Her role was to empower my team and make their job easier. Any kills I got were incidental. Any opportunity to chain-melt enemies were more punishing enemy recklessness than play of my own making.

I’m not talking about theory here. I’m saying how thing used to work during season 4~11, between low gold and high plat, which was the SR range I was back at that time.

You can’t judge a support hero by how much they perform alone. That’s not fair with either support hero today, neither it was with Symmetra before her Sym 3.0 rework.

(That’s also why I keep insisting that Sombra should had been a support hero too, but I digress)

It had piercing and was unstoppable. That was the zoning factor, not the speed or damage.

Second, I was not saying you was defending the current orb. I was saying why I vastly prefer the old orb instead of the current one. I’m glad we both agree it is subpar to its job.

Third, my point is that Sym have less angles than Pharah for the simple fact that Pharah can fly.

59

In Overwatch, it’s always someone else’s fault… you know this to be true.

60

This whole thread is on crack

  • Sym 2.0 and Sym 3.0 are fundamentally different because the former is an specialized defensive zone controller, and the later is an offensive pseudo-dps who is by her core design an awful dps hero. Saying ‘‘well Sym2 was a worse offensive hero’’ is like. Only partially true because she didnt have mobility, but she had the more reliable surviability that Sym3 doesnt have, while not being a throw pick in defense.

  • Sym3 TP is flawed and the core of her balance and kit issues, infinite or not. As long as team/construct TP exists Sym3 will be kept intentionally weak and subpar as a hero, because its POTENTIALLY overpowered. It also eats up one of her skills slots which can be potentially useless if people dont need TP. There is a reason Sym2 gave old TP an alternative, TP isnt useful or usable in every single situation.

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