Question for support mains

General Discussion
21

this isn’t about feeling bad nor about whether supports should or should not be able to heal bot. the point is simple:
if we’re to entirely shift the emphasis of support kits and gameplay to not be so focal on healing, then

  1. they need to actually emphasise something else whether that be damage or utility or both, in a cohesive manner; and
  2. whatever direction picked, kit designs should actually be reworked/redesigned and adjusted to actually facilitate that shift in focus.

rather than “just don’t heal so much and have low on everything else and somehow expect the support experience to not be trash and be able to carry like other roles” which is straight up unreasonable.

like if one wants less healbotty supports, then one should put there money where their mouth is and actually help advocate for support kits that actually allow that rather than assuming we can use a hammer to do a saw’s job.

4 Likes
22

I mean I don’t see the word bot as derogatory.
Bot = Robot.
Robots are very often better than humans at doing their job.

And that’s not the point of the thread. The main point is, being dependent on teammates.
OP compared OW supports to Lifeline from Apex, which shows his intentions from the word “healbot”, because Lifeline (like all other Apex characters) is in fact a DPS in OW standards.
The classes there have a minimal impact on the core gameplay.

23

Indeed, and more so, less players play the supports in those game.

This is important, if you want to move your support style to the same as those games, then you should expect the same player ratios as those games.

Look at queue times.

The very people who beg for those, do NOT want the results that would come with it.

24

exactly. hence my point in the difference in kit design focus/emphasis of kits that OP is missing when doing their comparison.

25

Hey OP, where did you go? This this thread not go how you wanted it to go? Come back and lets have a discussion!

3 Likes
26

Have you considered not getting diffed?

1 Like
27

all the supports in ow do decent damage and have good dueling except for mercy who is the odd one out.

Zen has insane dps, he two taps almost every single dps and can effectively zone the ones with more than 200hp

Bap has damage comparable to most of the dps roster with just his primary fire alongside a shift that heals for more than half your hp, and an immortality field

Ana has sleep, nade, and ok damage if you hit your sleeps you’re almost always good

Brig has very good sustain and ok damage, doesn’t struggle in 1v1’s against anything that has to get close to her to do considerable damage

Lucio could definitely use some love, but he has some good sustain with amp and meh damage, alongside pretty great movement capability

Moira has probably one of the easiest primaries in the game, pretty good sustain and middling but consistent damage

Mercy is the only odd one out, having no real aggressive options outside of valk

All things considered, I don’t think the support role is exactly starved for dps. I have no idea what the original post is about, but your comment on it is extremely misleading. Support is a super high impact role. You 100% have carry potential, and a huge amount of it at that.

1 Like
28

Anarchy Gage is the only true way to play Gage though. lol

2 Likes
29

Paladins.

All though it is less organized and more chaotic then ow yes some heroes allow you to set up and be able to heal “relatively safely”

Overwatch 2.

Yes, you can shoot for top heals in ow2. Although “healbotting” like alot of these made up derogatory jargon for this game is actually just a new way to insult ppl.

What other “shooters” have actual supports?

Apex is a battle royale and a bad example.

Your post shows how little you play or know support in any game.

So why would anyone take anything you say on the matter seriously?

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30

S L A Y E D :skull: :skull: :skull:

7 Likes
31

Team Fortress 2. Except it actually works out. Outside of Ubersaw, which by itself is risky to use in game, where close-range combat ends in 1-2 shots, anything else adds exactly 0% to your chargeable ability, when hurting enemy…so put you gun down and focus on supporting allies.

2 Likes
32

Whoever it was that said this forum is mostly entitled support mains was right :joy:

I may have been wrong about OW2 after all. It will be just as “alive” as OW1 because we all know these support mains that can sit in the backlines all match and watch a TV show while healing don’t have any other FPS to turn to.

33

No game exist like you described, not even this one.

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34

comparing apex to Overwatch lol.

tanks and supports in apex can have the same weapons as the more dps orientated champions.

Same goes for valorant btw.

2 Likes
35

It does for most of the support roster. Mercy, Moira, Brig, Lucio and even to an extent with a good team Zen simply just have to exist to win because their team can do the heavy lifting for them with just enough heals.

Ana and Bap are the only 2 exceptions that require actual skill and their OW2 beta winrates show that most support players aren’t skilled enough to play them.

36

yeah theres never any valid complaint about dps ever

if you play support dont you dare ever talk about anyone else. dps are never in the wrong

37

Imaging listening to people that still think dps is heavily underpowered/no impact.

38

That’s just good team synergy, over bad team mates. The whole point of this game is to cover for the weaknesses your mates have, and they the same. There are always matches where 1-2 of the classes are doing more than everyone else.

(In most situations, the greatest offender is not support).

1 Like
39

First off, he legit can’t. even with 2 headshots, it’s 192 damage.
Secondly, except he’s literally most diveable support. why? lacking of duel tools to actually let him reasonably duel others.

Firstly, counting lamp is pretty disingenuous because due to its long cd and value, using it up for a duel becomes a huge value loss for the team and the team losing out.

secondly, onto the main point, yet he has a lower damage and duel potential whilst only being able to realistically choose either “healbot” (won’t get sufficient sustain if you don’t commit to practically channel the healing) or subpar dps… and yet supposedly we’re not to do the former…

now can you really say they have equal or more carry potential if for most of the match time at best they’re a subpar dps (“at best” because time taken to heal = time taken away from being a subpar dps)?
can you reasonably expect players of the same skill be able to carry as much or more if they’re on such a kit as opposed to a kit from another role?

“if you land your sleep” is a a pretty big if esp when cd is longer in OW2. like zen, there’s a reason why she’s one of the more diveable supports.

and again, similar issue as bap in regards to the channel your heal (“healbot”) or subpar dps mutual exclusive uptime problem.

her damage isn’t ok tho…
she has like 58.33dps… surprisingly beating moira but still, only beating moira isn’t much of an achievement.
and even if you want to point to her bash-swing-whip combo, without stun it’s easily escaped let alone the requirement of being 12m from the target which is a pretty big ask for a hero with low mobility and doesn’t have tank level sustain.

except it’s one of the lowest damage in the game which also plays into the mutual exclusive uptime issue i.e. if you want sufficient sustain, you need to channel heals which eats away dps time, want sufficient dps output, better hope you have orb up to add to it otherwise gl with like 50dps.

even in valk you can’t afford to pistol (nor boost or res) if your team can’t manage to not require healing when you go out and do so.
heck, in most situations chain boost > pistol anyways.

the issue simply isn’t about dps values itself.
it’s about actually facilitating the gameplay shift to be less focal on heals if one actually wants supports to not have a heal focused gameplay rather than pretending that current kits are entirely sufficient to just go “yeah I’mma stop focus healing as much and output as much or more value by just ignoring a few buttons I have more”.

and where they’re insufficient isn’t simply in dps value itself. it includes:

  • capability/reasonableness/viability of getting more dps uptime.
  • tools to actually help duel and dps
40

If you think DPS has the most impact on winning then why don’t you play DPS? Why main support if you are basically admitting that it’s not a carry role? If you are playing a hero with zero carry potential then you really don’t get to blame other players.