This just goes against your argument in the OP.
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I said if you wanna do a rock paper scissors thing.
in the OP all roles are equal
So your basic premise is that if all things are equal then it doesn’t matter. But that is irrelevant because things are not equal. And you’ve already argued against your own premise which proves that.
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we’re getting way off course and i’m going to have to start from the beginning.
healers and dps should damage and heal the same amount correct? because if not then it’s unbalanced. think of soldier and mercy, the gun and the staff… all other abilities are additions. Would you agree? or are you in the school of “soldier is rock and mercy is the scissors”
then we can discuss rock/paper/scissor, well you need six of each type to ensure things are fair.
you make it seem that if I can’t explain it to you, then it’s not true.
would you be willing to discuss it over comms? it would be much easier and quicker to explain. if you don’t want to talk over comms then we’ll just do a back and forth one question at a time
correct, and that’s why you should be able to play 6 pharahs on one team. One points out if things were equal and another points out rock/paper/scissors
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I understand what the OP is trying to say and I agree with him.
Balancing is the main issue… lets take JUST the damage category, so that it is easier to understand.
If the game was balanced, then all the DPS would have basically the same damage output. You take one hero, say mccree… and balance around him. You factor in reload… accuracy… so you can have a bunch of different ways to shoot and play… but to someone with the same skills, they put out the same damage.
You put a value to their stuns, boops, mobility, or other ability so it all matches up.
I had a similar argument with old Symm… when people would cry for a healer… but Symm’s SG was just as good if not better than healing. The problem was perception, because no one ever knew how much shielding was used because the stat was never tracked for the SG. Her value in the support slot was massive, especially for low HP/flanking heroes like Tracer. I could get so much value out of her kit on ladder… because her old kit had so much value she was the swiss army knife of the game. Master of nothing, but avg at everything… something no other hero had. But you get into top tier play… you only play min/maxing… something Symm was not possible to do.
Anyway, I went off on a real tangent there, but the point is there. If the hero balancing was better… where the peaks of the highs were properly balanced with lows in other spots for a character… it wouldn’t matter what role you were in.
It is the reason why GOATS lasted so long… is because the healing the 3 supports put into the tanks… were able to out perform and outlast damage that was being pumped into them. Goats wasn’t unbeatable… in fact by the time Stage 3 was done (which was done on an old patch before the mcree buff) goats was pretty much dead. It just took someone to actually practice another strategy OTHER THAN Mirror to break the meta.
There is so little creativity in this game because people are so monkey see monkey do. But i think a lot of that has to do with them catering to solo queue instead of giving true teams an advantage that they should have in this game.
The playerbase will continue to play selfish if they see that the best way to rank up is alone. If the best way to rank up would be to group up in a team… you bet that the community would actually form teams which would have solved ALL the problems the community is expecting role queue to solve… when in reality, this new system will solve nothing.
It’ll be the shiny new thing to get ppl hyped like when LFG was introduced. But when they realize how restrictive role lock actually is (you can play live with it now in LFG)… and you get people that can’t do their roles… the toxicity will be magnified.
But now, instead of being able to fix it on your own (or at least thinking you can) during the match by swapping to a hero that fills the hole your team is missing… your left powerless which leads to even greater frustration.
Which of course leads back to balancing… because well, if the game was balanced properly, if you were always playing your best hero… ANY hero… ANY role… it wouldn’t matter, because you would be able to outplay your opponant.
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Well put.
I say LFG didn’t succeed because they left half of the QoL out.
If I had this QoL, I would never use matchmaker again
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skill is beyond the scope of this post
I’m not saying they the will, I’m saying they need to have that option in their back pocket
6 pharahs would have countered GOATs
my profile is public, I’ve been playing since season 7
rock/tank, paper/heal, scissors/dps
goats came about because the rock and the paper were better than the scissors, this is not suppose to happen
I don’t understand what you’re getting at.
youre looking at the game one-dimensionally. there are so many different kinds of dps (hitscans, projectiles, flankers, mobile, etc,) tanks (dive tanks, deathball/brawler, bunker, etc,) and supports (every support has their own kit of skills that mostly differ from one another) that you cant really put all of one role into the same category. certain heroes are better for certain scenarios, maps, and comps.
tl;dr - every hero has their own kit that is useful for different scenarios.
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yes, but soldier and McCree should be equally powerful yes? when inserted into every possible combination of 11 hero spots, Soldier and McCree should be able to perform almost identically in terms of impact on the game. Do you agree?
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Not really. A widow can be body shotting 120 dmg shots for a whole 3 minutes and not get a single kill. A Winston can go dive an Ana, zap her with his measly 60 DPS tickle canon + jump+melee and kill her, and win the team fight because of that. In the same vein, a Pharah/Junk can be spamming shields and tanks all day and just be feeding the enemy team ult charge, yet a Widow/Tracer that previously has 0 team damage suddenly carries with a click on the enemy main heal’s head.
This is an FPS/action game. Numbers don’t mean crap, context does.
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no i do not. mccree and soldier are completely different heroes, you cant simply say that theyre the same because theyre both hitscans. their weapons on their own are different. if youve actually been playing since season 7, you dont need an explanation on that. soldier has a sprint, healing, and a helix rocket for burst and splash damage. mccree has almost no mobility except his roll, which instantly reloads his gun, has a stun, and his right click is unlike anything soldier has. ults are also entirely different, mccree charges up and deals damage to everyone in an area of mccree’s line of sight, soldier has a weapon that bursts people down one by one in his line of sight.
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so then you think some DPS should be stronger than others, we’re just in two separate schools of thought then.
so youve completely ignored my replies before it seems? ive literally been saying on repeat that it depends on the scenario.
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Some people just want an echo chamber, and if you disagree with them you’re obviously trolling.
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and I answered that we have to consider all scenarios. would you be willing to discuss this in voice comms? I think it will be far more productive.
if you want to use in-game voice, sure. added.
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So, you believe you solved in three written lines a problem that has plagued a team of video game developers for three years?
Do you really think 30 heroes and thousands of team comp possibilities across 3 game modes on 15 different maps is able to be balanced? It’s not.
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How to perfectly balance the game:
take note of which heroes win and loose on each map. only take date from mid-high diamond and up
every time a hero wins a match their total HP pool is reduced by 1
every time a hero loses a match their total HP pool is increased by 1
keep a stock chart/spread sheet published on line with up to date HP pools and win rates
the chart updates every 5 minutes
this would perfectly balance the game
if this causes 6 must picks in OWL, then you could balance them separately
and if it causes 6 must picks in bronze, so be it