Positive reinforcement: the genius of the league system

Starting 2019, league of legends will have separate mmr by role queue.

i love how they understand that without positive reinforcement, players will act toxic as hell. Pity my warnings for 6 months about players having no motivation to stay in a game where they can already tell there is 0% chance of winning would result in constant leavers fell on deaf ears.

it’s so easy to design systems that reward players for good behavior and even if it were 4-5 sr, it would probably still be enough to make players stick around

“One more thing: we know competitive intent is a big deal in Ranked, so we’ll be rolling out new systems to help combat situations where players don’t take games in off-positions seriously. One plan grants bonuses for winning secondary and autofill games that apply the next time you play your primary position. We’re also looking at new penalties to help ensure Ranked stays hardcore.”

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coughs endorsements coughs. To be fair, the endorsement system doesn’t do it’s job too well, but it’s something.

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The endorsement system could definitely use a lot of work, but without being able to see a player’s stats, endorsement level does tell you something. I mean it’s better than nothing. For instance, I use it like when I notice I have an attack bastion that absolutely will not switch off no matter how bad we’re losing. If that person also happens to have a 1 endorsement level, it kind of tells you that you’re going to need to play around this person. I used the endorsement level specifically for this purpose today. Seeing the person’s 1 endorsement level and realizing they were not willing to trade to anything else, our entire team changed it’s comp so we had an orisa to shield him and a mercy to boost him. It sucked that we had to make this compromise, but it secured us the win.

Alternatively, when I see someone with a high endorsement level who hasn’t picked a hero, I assume I’m playing with someone who can and has effectively flexed for their team. An average of 4 or 5 endorsements per game is high, you can’t get that by accident, so this person is obviously doing something right. A high endorsement level also gives me more reassurance when I see a really off-meta pick or questionable pick for the map & whether we’re attack/defense.

So yeah I agree that the endorsement levels/reward system in OW really needs an upgrade, but I wouldn’t say endorsement levels are completely useless.

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yeah, i can’t really stand by the endorsements system as being that relevant. to movtivate the player base you have to provide the reward they want, boosted rank gains or reduced losses, or skins or something they actually want.

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no bonus SR for offroles, that’s a bad idea

Big brain pre-analysis. Keep it up. I have generally noticed that players who maintain a high endorsement level are more effective teammates (overall). I really like the endorsement system because it is a democratic statistic. It adds a human element that supplements OW’s non-human ranking system. Unlike SR. Unlike in-game stats. This is a vote based on human intuition, human experience, and human emotion. Not an algorithm. And I like that. A lot.

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Hey thanks for the kind feedback. It’s rare to find “keep it up” in these forums not being said sarcastically or as a low-effort sh%tpost. I’m honestly trying to do the best I can with what Blizzard’s giving us, but really struggling with the quality of comp. gameplay lately. It was enough for me to sign-up for these forums and post about it.

Lulz. I’ve felt like that too. OW community is pretty toxic. Easy to get jaded. I found that being positive, ignoring negativity (or pro-actively negating it if you’re up for it) and just having fun/laughing during matches makes for a lot less headache. Yeah, sometimes you have to bite the bullet… but leavers/throwers/smurfs/trolls are here to stay so you can only make best of the situation.

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Giving players SR for being positive makes the entire ranked system less accurate and would lead to more unbalanced games.

It’s skill rating, not suckup rating. Good players aren’t always positive.

Where did I say anywhere that endorsement levels are only useful to incentivize the playerbase? In fact, I proposed the exact opposite: while the endorsement system could definitely use some improvements, it is not totally useless as you and others have contested in this thread.

Riot need to make a competitor to OW. Blizzard won’t do anything until they have to.

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What good is knowing whether or not a player is a troll or not when you are stuck with them anyways by the time you have that information available?

Knowing that you are stuck playing around the troll does not make the experience less infuriating, and the endorsement 1 does nothing to discourage the unwanted behavior. Its not like you weren’t going to quickly find out the person was a nancy no-switch anyways.

I mean pretty much use LFG exclusively. So yeah, endorsement level makes a huge difference. If I am group leader, I do my due diligence. I check public profiles. I check endorsements. Although I do not discriminate against private profiles (as mine is private due to previously one tricking earlier in season… now I flex my role) but ensure they are in voicechat & converse their hero preference. If I am not group leader, I will jist leave the group if I notice too many low endorsement levels in the group. Any 2 or belows I almost instantly leave.

This has improved my game experience greatly. But mostly just staying positive and not blaming anyone until after the match is over. I will kick any potatoes, trolls, toxics, or disconnects afterwards.

The problem is when people think every single thing is negative. People take all forms of criticism as negative and call people toxic.

So stop criticising them. Don’t place blame. Be smart with your language and communication. Comms are a skill to master just like any other OW skill like aim, game sense, or positioning. Talk as a collective, statusing info about the match or about yourself so others are at least in the loop. “They’re outputting so much damage! We need to avoid taking needless damage. Let’s regroup and use our tanks as meat shields to push left through choke”.

If your Rein keeps over-extending and pressing SHIFT too much. Just start calling out his deaths as information input to comms: “Guys we just lost our Rein! I have no shield, I’m taking cover. Back out or let’s go the high ground instead.”

Do not single people out. You will tilt them. Keep your focus on statusing. Not blaming. You don’t need to be like “We got this guys!” If you’re getting steam rolled. That’s fake and pointless. Instead focus on calling out what the enemy is doing right and hope your team is smart enough to help counter it. Individual suggestions are a slippery slope: “maybe widow isnt helping us here against a Winston” is toxic (even if true). Instead, say “I need help with their Winston. I’ll go Zen and discord if someone goes Reaper or Mcree!”

My form of criticism is asking for a heal occasionally or asking moria if she can focus on healing orbs a bit more instead of damage orbs. I also let them know I am open to criticism if they see anything I can do better or different to help us win. I do not understand why trying to help the team have a better chance at winning and helping someone else is a bad thing. If I see a major thing contributing to a loss I feel it is better to identify the problem and do what you can to fix it while also helping others see it as well. A team is a unit made up of parts. It does not work if a part is not working and you ignore the problem it does not go away.

Asking for healing is OK. The orbs comment would get you told off. I don’t need someone with 7 minutes moira telling me how to manage my cooldowns. There are reasons that damage orb is usually thrown instead of healing orb.

I never said ignore the problem lol. I suggested that your change the language and tone you use to address the root problem. I think you immediately are defaulting to blaming teammates. This will introduce a leak of tilt into your games. Instead you should default to suggesting higher level statusing and game statusing. It will avoid tilt and still impact the choices your teammates make: “I’m taking a lot of damage. Can I get a healer to come left flank with me?” Might be more helpful than blaming Moira for DPS orbs.

This is a hard skill to master but take note of Top500 high level streamers (ML7, Fritzy). Their comms are never toxic. They never place blame in teamchat (they might vent to their viewers tho). Everything they say in comms is statusing events or ability coordination. That’s it. Never do you hear these top tier players saying "hey can we get a… Instead of a… ". There’s a reason for that. They understand that avoiding blame and tilt and adapting to the less than optimal situation (yourself) wins more games.

You are focused too much on blaming the micro when you should be statusing and planning to win the macro. That’s how I’ve been climbing 300+ SR in the last week.

Ok I will play DPS only ANA and Moria and I will tell my team to adapt to me. While I am at it I will also go sym vs enemy pharahs. Wow you guys have opened my eyes.