why only 3 second for Valk?
I just cant agree with that knowing i played 11 months of vanilla mercy without hearing anyone complain about the mechanic at all.
Leaving a hero slightly underpowered is fine so long as the playerbase of that hero is happy with it, which was the case back then. This is especially true when other heroes need attention more than the hero in question, and when the heroâs hypothetical rework results in 6 months of that hero being brokenly overpowered.
Iâm going to let one my older posts speak for me here:
Reasons for the Rework:
When Mercyâs rework was introduced to the PTR, a Developer Update was released with it:
Between 0:39 and 2:12 in that video, we are given two reasons for the rework which come down to âhide and rezâ and âit wasnât fun to play againstâ. Letâs start with the âhide and rezâ assertion.
There are two ways to interpret what Jeff Kaplan said in that video regarding âhide and rezâ. One way is that he is suggesting that Mercy players were routinely hiding as soon as they had their ultimate fully charged, which he disliked. The other interpretation is that Jeff didnât want a main healer to âstop healing for some period of timeâ. Both interpretations are poorly thought out, and that lack of thoroughness has led to both concepts reappearing through the successive patches to Mercy following the rework.
Addressing the first one⌠Partially because I am feeling a little bit lazy at this time, partially because I stated it beautifully back on August 12th, 2017, I am going to quote myself from the old forums when I discussed âhide and rezâ:
âItâs just hide and rez.â
This quote illustrates that the person saying it has no idea what they are talking about. No, itâs not an oversimplification; itâs just plain wrong.
âHide and rezâ is a great strategy⌠assuming your goal is to get wiped after the resurrection. Hiding turns the fight into a 5v6 with a main healer down. Any competent team would be able to walk through your team without expending ultimates, except to counter any ultimates expended by your team. The enemy team already has the positioning advantage and the first shot after the resurrection. âHide and rezâ would also give them the advantage of more ultimate abilities. Doing so sets your team up for failure.
A good Mercy sustains her team until they can no longer be sustained, or until she can no longer do so safely. By doing this, she allows the team to bait more ultimates before dying, giving your team the ultimate ability advantage after the resurrection.
A team playing against a hiding Mercy would have a significantly easier time dealing with the opposing team, as Mercy is putting her own team at a disadvantage. It wouldnât even come down to being aware enough to consciously notice the 5v6 (although most players should be able to recognize a 5v6 when they see one), but a matter of knowing how much force the team needs to apply to overcome a given resistance; if the enemy is crumbling, donât expend limited resources to push a structure that will fall on its own.
Because the opposing team is already at a numbers disadvantage in the initial fight, pushing into them without using any ultimates, except to counter ultimates expended by the enemy, will be sufficient for eliminating the opposition. This further leads to more loaded ultimates, as killing 4-5 enemies in a 2-2-2 composition is roughly equivalent to 1500 charge in HP. That is also excluding additional charge gained through allied healing and allied damage through enemy healing. Combine this with the absence of a need to expend ultimates, and the team with the hiding Mercy is revived looking down the barrel of an incredibly large gun, has no time to draw their own, and is in a poor position to capitalize on it even if they did have the time to draw their own.
As a result, hiding prematurely was detrimental to the teamâs chances of winning the fight in the long term, even if it was more risky in the short term. It was a misuse of an ultimate.
To add some perspective to this, using âhide and rezâ as a reason to remove Resurrect as an ultimate is about the same as using the fact that some Pharah players Barrage themselves on occasion as a reason to remove Rocket Barrage.
By this interpretation of Jeff Kaplanâs words, Blizzardâs intent was to prevent Mercy from leaving the fight, keeping her engaged. Rather than giving more reason to stay in the fight through modifications to Resurrect as an ultimate and the introduction of a decent E ability, the balance team decided to remove Resurrect as an ultimate entirely, and here we are.
Did someone say Valkyrie?
If the intention was to keep Mercy in the fight, why was her ultimate, which punished hiding prematurely and rewarded active play, replaced with an ultimate that rewards staying as far from the battle as possible?
According to this interpretation of Jeffâs words, the developersâ statement is, âWe didnât like how some Mercy players would leave the fight before using their ultimateâŚâ. This statement is then finished by the patch history with, ââŚso we replaced the previous ultimate with one that is best utilized by leaving the fightâ.
Letâs examine the second interpretation.
âWe think itâs wrong to tell a main-healing character to go off and hide somewhere and stop healing for some period of time.â
1:32 - 1:42 of that same developer update.
The bold section is the one I am focusing on. Letâs pretend that the first interpretation is incorrect, and assume that Jeff Kaplan doesnât want a hero to stop doing their main job for any period of time. In this case, the assertion may have some merit to it, as there was often a 3-5 second break in healing before Resurrections. This happened for two reasons, both of which came down to practicality:
- 60 health/second will not save the team from the incoming enemy ultimates.
- Mercyâs healing/amplification beams are obvious, and will lead the enemy straight towards her.
This would often result in the Mercy player staying further back or taking cover, possibly substituting healing/amplifying with whatever damage they could deal with their pistol. She would then use Resurrect and finish off or severely weaken a target they shot at before the Resurrection. In these scenarios, there is a short duration in which not doing Mercyâs primary job was the best way to use her.
Thatâs how it looks in a vacuum.
Look beyond just Mercy, and most heroes often perform very similar maneuvers to reach the same goal. Some examples of this are Rocket Barrage and Death Blossom, in which the player stops shooting at the enemy (their primary job) to reposition, obscure their position, and gain the advantage of surprise when they use their ultimate. This then begs the question: Why werenât these ultimates changed for the same reason Mercyâs was changed?
The stupidity doesnât stop there. We once again have a statement that identifies a perceived problem and proceeds to contradict itself through the actions of the developers:
Developers: âWe didnât like how Mercy would stop healing for a short duration before using ResurrectâŚâ
Patch notes: ââŚso we removed Mercyâs ability to heal for an additional 1.75 seconds leading up to Resurrectâs activation.â
If the developers wanted Mercy players to heal more leading up to a Resurrection, why did they make it physically impossible for her to do so?
One interpretation of this argument brings us an assertion built on ineffective use of an ultimate as a reason to change the ability; an assertion that appears to have been said once and then disregarded with the following patches. The other interpretation yields an assertion that is a double-standard that has also been disregarded in the following patches.
2 Likes
Iâm not going to sugarcoat this: Mercy needs another nerf. (I play a lot of Mercy, FWIW.) If Valk were to go to E and stay 15 seconds long, then she would become ridiculously OP.
Youâre right. It shouldnât be 15 sec, but it also shouldnât be 3 sec.
How long would you suggest Valk to lastâŚ
- If it remains Mercyâs ult?
- If it gets swapped with Rez?
Valkyrie is much better for the game, far more fun to use and play against and better for balance.
5-6 seems more fair. Iâll even remove chain healing/damage boost.
LMAOâŚthis is the best part to me.
The whole argument and all of yours before this were right on the money.
1 Like
Where have you been the past 11 months?
Before Valkyrie her pickrate was average at best.
Shes has been the most unbalanced hero in the game since the rework.
I have no idea what game your playing but your statement is questionableâŚ
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Counterpoint to thatâŚ
Yes you couldnât really stop Mass Resurrect from happening⌠but let me tell you of a few times my Mass Resurrect did indeed get countered.
Hanamura Defense:
Enemy team is pushing in and takes down our Rein and Ana⌠I know we wonât be able to take this fight without them.
âHEROES NEVER DIEâ
âangry japanese yelling of the Hanzo Varietyâ
âItâs hiiiiiigh noon.â
âIâve got you in my sights!â
welp, weâre dead.
Eichenwalde Defense 1 point 1:
Walk through the teleporter⌠jump down and Rez 5. Die before my team is back (aayy pre invuln buff). Team gets rolled in a 6 v 5 fight where my team is missing their main healer.
Numbani Defense:
Enemy team lands a 4 man Grav.
âHEROES NEVER DIEâ
those 4 people do absolutely nothing with it and die again. Donât even think the enemy team burned another ult.
Eichenwalde Defense 2 point 1:
Had previously pulled off the whole die early, walk back to point, dive in for a penta res and save the point. On attempt #2 of that⌠Enemy Reinhardt planted his big armored metal butt in the door next to the point. I did manage to get past him, but it delayed me/threw me off enough that I missed all 5 people. Point was not saved.
ALSO⌠Mass Resurrect was actually the most costly ult to mess up.
If you throw a DVa bomb and get no one⌠you have used an ult with nothing to show for it⌠but thatâs it. Also you might be able to capitalize on that thing making the enemy scatter.
If you use Mass Resurrect and donât win Team Fight round 2⌠You just made it so your team cannot make another attack/defense attempt for a good 15 seconds AND fed the red team a significant amount of ult charge.
MORE ALSO:
This game is set up in such a way that living forever cannot and will never win a game. At some point SOMEBODY has to kill the enemy team to end the game.
Because of that very simple fact; Mass Resurrect, Transendence, and Sound Barrier cannot win games. They can save them, but they cannot win them. Thatâs why defensive ults can be (and should be) âmore powerfulâ than offensive ults without seeming unfair.
Far more balanced hero now, thatâs almost universal for anyone without a nostalgic Mercy bias from pros down. She is STILL the best healer in the game and Valkyrie is objectively just better to use as a player, itâs more fun.
You answer is questionable.
You either were deaf or ignoring them on purpose because Iâve been here since the beginning and Mass Rez was ALWAYS a point of contention for the player base, always!
no, the only mercy topics were cries for her to be better. Hence the numerous buffs after buffs to get her in line with Ana.
You donât know what your talking about with her being balanced. Shes far from it and has been for almost a year. Pickrates, pro play, and statistics all show this data
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What about this idea? 
Iâd take full on invulnerability or even partial invulnerability (patients still take on damage but never fall below 1 HP and die during the duration) over any form of Rezzes, ult or ability.
I donât think Rez is a healthy mechanic in the first place because it changes the way a round turns. Plus with either the invulnerability suggestions would put her more in line with the rest of the other healersâ ultimates, like Lucioâs Sound Barrier, Moiraâs high HPS, Zenâs extreme HPS, Anaâs damage boost + damage resistance, and whatever Brigitte does with Rallyâs AoE.
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Valkyrie is healthier for the game than mass rez.
But mass rez as an ultimate that you work to get is healthier than 1 rez every 30 seconds.
I personally like current Mercy, it takes a lot of the pressure away if youâre able to rez your second healer/a tank if they get picked at any time.
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Ya you werenât paying attention, Mass Rez was considered a blight almost since this game launched. The rose coloured nostalgia from Mercy players is hilarious when it comes to Mass Rez. The single most hated ability in the games history, more than 8 second Dragon Blade.
Mercyâs is still strong but thatâs more an indictment on the support class. Tone her damage boost down and her ability to heal through shields = balanced. Rez is in a good spot for people both playing with her and against her.
Yeah I heard that same balanced argument after everyone of her 10 nerfsâŚ
But rez turns the fight in the same way that your invulnerability suggestion, Trans and Sound Barrier do: All of them deny kills. They just accomplish that goal by different means.
The entire point of an ultimate ability is to turn the fight in your teamâs favor. Why should Mercy be an exception?