Which other stats would you like to use?
A hero isn’t popular when everyone only starts playing them after they get buffed. A hero is popular if people play them when they’re weak.
Ah. It’s only okay to cite if it’s Mccrees winrate?
In that case what was your problem with gm stats being used?
I’m not suggesting anything. I’m just following your argument that winrate matters and applying it to the top as you are to the bottom.
Dude 
surely you must sometimes wonder why certain heroes have lower winrates even if they can be hard meta, right? Like SURELY. Ever wondered why cassidy has been literally 3x picked more than any other DPS right up until OWL, all over T500 leaderboards and STILL have a meh winrate? And what about sym 2.0 who was possibly the biggest throw pick of all time, who had a 60%+ winrate?
Ok think about this, people literally reported sym players for playing 2.0 because she was so garbage.
Do you ACTUALLY think cassidy PRE NERFS was significantly weaker than sym 2.0? Because that is exactly what winrate is showing.
I mean you can literally look at your own profile to prove winrates are useless unless you’re a one trick. If you swap when it’s an already losing game, that is going to impact winrate drastically. The opposite can also apply of course.
I mean dude, just think about it. Surely you MUST see that winrate is a biased stat.
Change the way his shield works. Either get rid of it…or make it so he can’t shoot, stun, grasp, etc whilst shielding. Make it so he has to “hold” his shield in place somehow. Then make balance changes accordingly.
Winrates, what role are they in, are they designed for a specific purpose(niche heroes), are they performing decent in that area, Pick rates as well , just not at the top of the importance list.
Are they overperforming because of outside sources like boosts, the current meta, heroes that enable them, Do they have an unorthodox weapon , a more generalist weapon. What range do they operate in, etc.
76 has always been among the most popular dps heroes.
No. I also based it on Blizzards statistics as well. Meaning even with their stats they saw he was underperforming and thats why he was further buffed in the experimental card that didnt go through.
So im basing off a couple of sources not just 1 and not just “muh popularity”.
That you always try to skew the stats to favor whatever argument you are trying to prove.
whether it be only using a certain rank or/and only using a small time period, etc.
Anyhow i already stated that i prefer the devs balancing from the very top.
No i never wondered. Its obvious that Mccree is one of the very few things in this game that can can keep the quicker heroes in check or at least try to contain them a bit. Tracer, Doom, Ball, etc.
And the fact that an FPS game like OW, will always have the shooty type heroes be the more popular heroes.
Does it mean he is having great success because his pickrate is above average. No.
She was support. No one wants a support that cant heal on their team.
Every stat can be biased. But it is of more importance than “feelings” or “popularity”.
As “This hero is in all my games , im tiered of this OP hero ruining my fun”
Again, feelings surly cant be biased right. Surely not.
And i never said pick rates were a non factor. I said they are no the most important thing or the only thing to look at when determining to nerf a hero.
Winrates are at the top of the list when looking at if a hero needs help or nerfs. It isnt the only thing to look at though.
Neither is only popularity the end all stat. As that is the most braindead thing to try to defend and cling to.
Anyhow its always the same running in circles arguments.
Cant wait for OW2, when the game will be more pew pew and the heroes these hitscan complainers cry about will be even more relevant. And its not just hiscans , it will be the whole game that will be more FPS-ish.
Even the only new hero we seen so far has been another pew pew hero lol.
Cant wait for the meltdown from the small group of people in these forums when OW2 comes out.
Get your keyboards ready and your capslock lubed, for the rants and complaining when the game switches to the OW2 format. Its going to be sad and glorious at the same time.
Either accept the fact or go back to Roblox, Minecraft LOL, DOTA or whatever other game you prefer to FPS games.
I get that popularity isn’t the end all be all thing but but if a character is being played a lot by the top the people that just pick the best possible character to win then it’s kinda clear
Also since release to less than a year ago soldier was barely getting picked ever and not cuz he was weak but because a lot of people find him boring and now suddenly he’s getting played and picked everywhere and is almost always in the top 3 surely that says something about his power level
Reapers pickrate is too low. I’d say it would need to be looked at with respect to whether this is just an anomaly ie map specific/attack/defence/handful of extremely good main or one tricks. If the final point, that could be an issue 
As for Ana/Ashe/Soldier, if they’re winrate is higher than the ranks’ median I’d say that something needs to be looked at. Why are they performing better than their peers? Are they too strong, their counters too weak, etcetcetc. I dislike the way people go X needs nerfs cos of this. This is an indication of something being off, but I think the data we have has enough detail to say what exactly that might be
You forgot about the massive boulder he hurls at anyone crazy enough to actually engage him when his shield is down, which also nicely pads his lack of downtime even more.
The lack of downtime is fine for such a slow and squishy character
If you want him to do less, he needs to not get wrecked as soon as someone gets close. I still like the creator experiment for this.
Also PEOPLE PEOPLE in this thread can we effing grow up and not derail every fricking thread into a debate about dumb wr and pr, when its not even the point of the thread.
Can we fricking just talk about hero design instead of numbers scrapped by some bot.
I came here to bash sigma design not to read your thesis on overbuff. Like everythread.
But Supps and Tanks PR should be higher than DPS ones.
We have Role queue. Both teams have 2 Tanks/DPS/Supports.
There are ~17 DPS and 7 Supports.
So the chance that Ana gets picked is way higher compared to Cassidy.
Thus If a DPS has a higher PR than a Tank/Supp that is kinda questionable.
Overbuff is pretty reliable. Its sample size is pretty big, its the same way inductive statistics work.
Don’t bother arguing with them, DVS will choke to death on a certain cowboy’s… gun… before he admits he’s actually strong.
And as he just mentioned, will gladly die on the hill of: “hUrR duRr hE’s nOt StRonG hE’s juSt pOpUlaR”
But as for Sig, i’m on the fence. I don’t think many people will be actually happy (me included who plays him too) until his shield is gone for good. Open’s him up to some really fun and whacky changes, drastically reduces the garbage double shield viability.
To be fair, I kinda enjoy having these big discussions with DVS. Maybe I won’t change his mind, but I find it weirdly fun, I don’t know why?
I guess this comes down to perspective. Personally I love having a “skillful” shield where he’s all about catching cooldowns but then again grasp could be adjusted to have a higher skill ceiling than now so maybe it could work.
Sigma has a lot of downtime, just not against dps.
Like Soldier and Tracer aren’t doing anything until your tanks start pushing him. Considering his kit is just playing keep away from flankers and denying snipers with 2 layers of barriers and spammable nades he softens dps trying to enter chokes.
Roadhog and Zarya pretty much eat Sigma once he drops barrier, and Reinhardt is always out damaging him unless Sigma has a Roadhog teammate to peel for him, but Rein’s second tank should peel for him too. Also Winston with a pocket is good for jumping Sigma and his healers since Sigma isn’t good at peeling against tanks.
Also Ana and Bap function better with other tanks than Sigma since he isn’t giving healers any ult charge as he plays more distant and safe.
Idk if sigma need nerfs, but I watched him survive against 3 enemies on him for a good minute in quickplay. I couldn’t heal him since he was out of LOS but he somehow managed to survive long enough to come back to me with 3 enemies following him LOL.
I actually think sigma is fine if he is the only tank like in 5v5. He’s just really oppressive in 2CP because of how much self-sustain he has. And lamp probably isn’t helping with that either. Is it a bad thing that he has so much self-sustain though? I can’t tell whether this is a good or bad thing, since it’s technically a good thing that tanks have self-agency in this game for once.
I have yet to meet anyone that said Sigma is a braindead easy hero that requires no aim
Yet
I wouldn’t consider him braindead at least for the current meta but his kit is overturned compared to other tanks who usually have only 2 options instead of 3.
this part confuses me. wouldn’t giving him more downtime be the thing that’d make him clunkier?
No, if you reduced his grasp duration to 1 second then reduced shield cooldown back down to 1 second he’d be 2x less clunky. Grasp feels like it lasts too long for its own good anyways.
probs just me thinking you meant something else by downtime then. because when I hear downtime, I’m thinking “time spent outside of effective range for their job increasing”/“time spent doing their job decreasing” and to me that’s very in line with clunkiness in gameplay (well at least in 1 form of it).
whether or not your proposal does that idk, but, if it does that I don’t see how it’d make him less clunky.
Nevermind that Sombra can “downtime” him with her hack.
Nevermind that all the other flanking DPS can get on his back and harass him.
Nevermind that Winston and Zarya can primary fire through his grasp.
Nevermind that he is completely vulnerable during his grav flux and can easily be CCed out of it.
Nope, I can’t figure out counters, so just nerf this character plz.