Look, fix the last thing you broke before you break another thing.
Reinhardt is 100% mandatory to win games. It’s making tanking toxic and awful all the way up and down the elos. Please, do something about that.
Part of the problem is the support line though. Tanks rely on supports in a way that dps just don’t, and it’s the strength of the support+tank pairing that determines a lot.
Rein has Ana+Lucio, and those are all strong.
Orisa has Bap+Zen, and Bap is further away from Ana then Orisa is from Rein. Lucio and Zen are close enough that it’s not a big deal.
Winston doesn’t even have a main healer at all. Like straight up, you run Winston you just don’t get a support duo with the same level of synergy as Ana+Lucio or Bap+Zen.
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This, but in regards to the dynamic between OW and OW2. Like, fix this up and make this game proper before you launch another one and ask the same customers to trust you that you got it right this time. Like, this game is a balance mess, why should I trust them with a single extra dollar for a new game?
I don’t honestly understand why the balance is so bad if they’re actually trying to balance it. I could do better and I don’t even have any credentials.
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I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it here. It’s probably because people higher up than the game developers, are making decisions.
It’s been pointed out that a lot of changes have been geared towards making tanks irrelevant, healers impotent, and kills very quick and flashy. Some exceptions noted, of course. But all these things are a far cry away from where this game really shines, and it’s always getting closer to a COD clone or a late-2000’s Halo where everyone dies in one or two hits but there’s some power-ups/abilities.
None of that feels like what OW was built for, and none of that is what the playerbase seems to care for. Because all of that was already available, in spades, in the broader game market ever since the mid-90’s.
It very much feels like some powers-that-be decided that everything needed to die quickly. And those 6-person kills that make POTG and get posted ALL over YouTube for free advertising (that the game very helpfully packages for you into neat, tidy clips) is what will drive eyeballs and sales.
So, in short, it feels like someone making decisions to abandon the fun, unique, and interesting parts of this game trying to chase a different version of this game that the corporate people are demanding we want, but forget that they don’t get to tell us what we want. shrug.
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Then, why is Reinhardt ridiculously powerful?
I could believe they deliberately trashed the other tanks but if they wanted COD they’d have trashed all of them.
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Looks like they are going to do both.
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I did say some exceptions noted. And Rein isn’t that powerful, he’s just the least-nerfed of the bunch right now. His shield has been nerfed, and he got some adjustment with steadfast to make him a bit more playable.
But the fact that he doesn’t have his shield up 100% of the time is probably a factor too.
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I mean, no one wants to hear it, but I’m blaming OWL. And I’m only blaming OWL because the powers-that-be have decided that tanks take too much damage and supports mitigate damage too much to allow for a fast paced e-sports gig.
This is why I believe they have been constantly nerfing tanks and supports. They have simply forgotten that their player base isn’t the 1% of the 1% but they don’t seem to care so long as OWL rakes in the dough.
From what I hear though, OWL isn’t doing so good. You’d think this might be a good thing for the balance of the game but it only makes it worse. Now they might start upping the level of nerfing to the point you may as well forget that tanks and supports exist.
I don’t know what they were thinking when they started paying so much attention to OWL but it’s only hurt the game in my opinion. I remember when tanking used to be fun and when healing was a rewarding experience. Now everyone just throws shade at both categories acting like it’s their fault when a loss happens when really it’s the ones balancing the game who are at fault.
Rein is a must pick at this point because his shield is still the strongest, even as weak as it sometimes feels. Some people even instalock Zarya, a subtle hint they want a Rein but won’t play him themselves. Picking anything else gets you a negative response.
I don’t know what the real problem is, but this is just my theory.
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I think your point is good, but let’s see what they do with supports. I don’t think the tank imbalance is nearly as bad as the support imbalance. Just me though.
It’s been over a year since patch 1.27 that broke the support roster for good and started us on the path we are today.
Tanks shouldn’t wait that long but supports surely need a hand right the fork now.
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Supports feel pretty ok right now. Only Baptiste is really bad.
The biggest issue statistically, mandatory Ana, simply goes along with mandatory Reinhardt.
We can say their name, OWL investors.
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I still say that Ana’s healing is perfectly fine (within the context of the roster), she just has insane utility and an ult that has either the DPS or tank feeling like a demi-god for a few seconds. Of course players want Ana on their team.
The other healers that people don’t want on their team? They all lack the immense utility that the “favorites” have. Or at least they don’t bring as much, or enough utility, considering. Heck, Lucio doesn’t heal much in any given second, but people will love on that speed boost all day long.
Fix what exactly?
People don’t want Reinhardt to feel like a “pinball” so we’ve complained away any scary levels of CC in this game.
The majority of our tanks also rely on CC in their kits so they end up feeling weaker each time we throw out a nerf.
Resulting in every tank feeling either…
- Too weak to justify choosing over a barrier
- Too weak to justify choosing over a Reinhardt
Which brings us back to playing even more Reinhardt, making 2016 strats like ice walling off a tank sound like GTA cheat codes or something.
Alongside all of this, we will all also debate just how long barriers should last (more or less DPS?), which will always end with us agreeing that Orisa/Sigma should have weaker barriers than Rein, making them moot and everyone without a barrier, a liability in the face of nonstop DPS.
Rein is mandatory because of Ana and Lucio, not the other way around.
Tanks obviously need help too but support balance is worse.
Ana being best main support means you want to run the tank lineup that synergizes best with her, and that is Reinhardt and Zarya/D.va.
Right - but like everything, this utility keeps getting cries for nerfs. People keep trying to boil the game down to burst heal, burst damage, tanky walls. With a roster like ours, the devs need to lean in on the utility-themed strengths of their characters.
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Lucio’s speed boost has seen a ton of nerfs and I’m sure it will get nerfed againi in the future because “more speed is too much”.
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Everyone is afraid to death of Resurrect being a thing and can’t help but quote forum psychologists on the “tyranny of erasing my earned kills”. But they also don’t want her healing to be good because it is “low skill” so we’re just gonna leave that one wherever it lands and not look back…
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Brigitte wasn’t allowed to bring “too much armor” so we nerfed the whole mechanic and every other part of her kit for good measure.
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Zenyatta saw a few nerfs, all aimed to lower his discord and damage. Altogether not terrible but anyone in this game that could peel for him is probably satan and needs a nerf.
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Moira, like Ana, is playing the “top heal” strategy and loses out on utility. Less range and utility, more survivability. Harder to justify the higher you climb, I guess.
It’s a funny system. Ana works well with Reinhardt because he is a giant guy with a big protective wall.
Ana entered the game as a sniper healer but instead of playing into her strengths, we have all found it easier to ignore her weaknesses and park ourselves behind the easiest targets to hit.
It’s not just a “nerf this person, buff that” thing – everything’s connected
- Ana has no mobility and the game launched with good dive heroes meaning staying too far from the team isn’t ideal
- The devs only design aoe heals and melee ranged defenses (DM/Barriers) which means her team can support her the best when she is near them.
- Tanks generally have great cleave attacks making them good targets to nano during a brawl and Rein/Zarya have fight winning ultimates making them too important to not pocket.
The supports need more power in their utility and less focus on their actual healing numbers. It should be about them keeping their allies from getting hurt in the first place. We also need incentives to play in different positions. — (Lucio’s range got nerfed in favor of power (wall rides were fun, tho) meaning he has to play in the same position as Ana. Zen has a wide range but he is frail so again, he needs to be safely behind his tank. Brigitte was an outlier that got swiftly slapped back into her position. No support feels stronger away from the team which means you’re better off going with the one that can keep everyone alive on a whim.)
Tanks need more power in their ability to engage the enemy. A lot of people said they wanted 2-2-2 because it would “allow us to see how heroes perform compared to others in their class”. Well…they gotta do that. Make Reinhardt’s barrier more than just a damage soak – reward him/his team for having people firing through it once he raises it or something. Bring that energy to every other tank so they feel like experts in whatever they do!
Mercy has been an untouched mess for ages. I’ll take any attempt at improving her over anything else in the game right now.
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I really don’t think this is true. Lucio basically exists to speed Reinhardt up and make him broken. That’s been his entire role in the game for years. Ana has major flaws and weaknesses that mandatory deathball hides. If other tank comps were good, Ana would go back to the risky pick she used to be. They’re both only good because Rein is meta, and I’d take Rein without either before I’d use either in any other situation.
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Sweet! More Dva nerfs!