Dive was the dominant meta. Widowmaker was the second highest DPS pick, even after the Mercy nerfs that lowered her pickrate. She was objectively dominant during dive.
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Nope, during the first stages of Dive, Widow was the 3-4 picked hero in OWL, far behind Genji and Tracer. Only after Mercy´s rework she only rose to overtake Genji on pickrate (30-40%) and later stages she overtook Tracer to get the dominant 70+.
Not a single nerf during these times, changed Mercy´s usage and pickrate from the dominance it had and neither did it bodge Widow off.
So as i correctly stated, that is factually false, Widow was never a dominant pick in Dive. Neither isn´t she able to function in dive, when she still was countered, cause in dive she was and expendable pick most the time, getting a kill for kill value. Dying fast and a lot often.
Source here for the pickrates: Reddit
/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/b4ub8m/overwatch_league_hero_pickrates_per_stage_season/
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It already happened, they basically preemptively nerfed her because people were whining about it after shields got nerfed.
What items? The Razorback? You know spies will just ignore it and kill you with their revolver, right? If you get the drop on a Sniper, he’s dead unless you mess up or he gets a lucky melee crit. I’ve played TF2 extensively; you die fast with 125 health.
No, Sniper just gets facechecked by Pyros with flamethrowers that can kill him in less than a second, and Scouts that can kill him with two shots of their Scattergun.
If you get jumped as Sniper, you’re toast. If you get jumped as Widow, you’re only really vulnerable when Grapple is on cooldown.
Ha, I wish.
Also, Ana, Baptiste, Bastion, Brigitte, Lucio, Mei, Moira, Pharah, Symmetra, Torbjorn, Zarya, and Zenyatta.
“Counters” is clearly a relative term here…
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You literally just admitted that she was dominant. Just because it happened after Mercy became meta doesn’t at all change the fact that she was dominant. She was only 2% behind Genji in stage 1, not “far behind”. Even when Mercy’s pickrate plummeted in stage 2 after her initial nerf, Widow’s pickrate stayed the same at #3 and went way up after that.
So as I correctly stated, she was objectively dominant during dive.
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It isnt a nerf, its a revert of a buff. What she needs is ACTUAL nerfs to her heashot damage (remove 1 shots).
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WM has the best power in the game.
No matter how skillfull a hero is, you should not dominate without a weakness. She virtually has not weakness thanks to her grapple.
Be thankfull you have that ability.
Most games with a sniper like dont have a grapple for balance
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Most games don’t NEED a grapple to not get stomped on by characters with no skill requirement.
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I would argue against that.
In CoD WW3 they had a sniper that one shots you as fast as widow and you dont have grapple.
No scoping was hell
Quickscoping was possible but thats cod
then there are the lmgs (in case ya didnt play CoD ww3, you literally dont need to aim and can kill any1 across the map) So yeah
grapple literally defies half the balance most games have established for snipers like widow.
Also the term “No skill” is just dumb to say.
Everything needs a skill.
Not because someone didnt use as much “skill” as you doesnt mean they didnt put as much skill as you.
A winston diving a widow and killing her
Put as much “skill” as widow.
But since widow is literally more powerfull than almost any other hero she could beat him still if she had her panic attack button now think of it this way.
Widows need to be more skill full and fair to play against =)
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You are trying to make the already hardest hero in the game even harder.
And that comment about fairness is just laughable, considering what sort of infinitely more oppressive abilities are in the game, without the aim requirement even.
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You’re getting killed by moira?
Really?
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Only 1 other has a one shot on primary without any outside sources, and that’s on a projectile. Kind of a really bad comparison in the first place.
Just like to point out your overbuff has you had 500+ wins on widow, and your next most played is 110. Who’s really trying to one trick here?
Yes everyone, spread out through the single choke point you absolutely need to go through that has perfect los from the sniper perch across the map.
Not even half true.
Funny enough the hitbox’s for those models are actually bigger than the model itself.
That… isn’t … what… quality of life… means… Kay.
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Tracer, genji and ball are all harder. Others are too, but that’s up to debate - those 3 are DEFILINTELY harder though.
Widow is the least fair hero in the game.
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she aint the hardest hero in the game lmao
See there is your problem
you think aim is a god tier skill
but in reality it aint.
Almost any1 can learn it
but the one skill most people cant learn without sweating tears Game sense
and that should be clear by now to you but it aint so i aint gonna waste my time here no more
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Widow is not even in the top 5 for most mechanically demanding. And that’s all her kit requires.
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If it’s so easy, then make them learn it.
Do you know how much Moira players would riot, if her beam hitbox were reduced to a reasonable size?
All I want is falloff damage so she can’t sit at extreme ranges where your only counterplay is “Can either of you two DPS players player widow better than their widow?”. If we clip her back without actually overall changing her actual stats outside of extreme ranges damage falloff, she would be absolutely fine and other heroes could contest her - even if suboptimally - without actually swapping to widow themselves.
I don’t mean like extreme strict falloff, I’m thinking falloff range from 40-55 meters so she can’t sit at super ranged spots in extremely open areas (Junkertown point A for example, defending from the spawn to highground highrise having a command over all flank routes in scope, and triggers every other hero with falloffs maximum falloff damage reduction making them completely unusable to unseat widow)
Just stop hinging my games on widow V widow, there either needs to be something new that can properly contest a widow on at least even grounds, or she needs falloff so the existing heroes can do that to some extent. Her falloff range should be far higher than normal heroes - as I said 40-55 - and for an example Mccrees falloff range is 20-40 so it’s still a commanding sniper lead, just not an infinite range wall of death so long as you can be seen you can be one shot like is has been.
The forcing of widow to fight widow is the problem I have, because left alone she is too powerful and that commands a need to widow v widow otherwise your team suffers because widow get free reign over the map uncontested. On some map areas this is simply not an issue, and on some map areas, this is the single biggest issue.
While she isn’t OP - she sure as hell isn’t healthily designed in as far as it dictates you must widow vs widow.
if you want an example of truly OP - Look at Hanzo. Functions as a top 2 hero pick in a double shield meta, which should by design counter him because it blocks his ranged damage, but he’s still present because he shieldbreaks or just gets off angles, he has so much to offer and an answer to every problem, you would never not want to pick hanzo against anything in any situation - except against widow at extreme ranges because your projectile travels slowly and widow will have domed you way before it gets close to her. He is OP - widow is not, she’s just designed badly, she requires a check and balance and that half of her kit design is just missing, the hero that isn’t widow to stop her or at least fight on relative even grounds just isn’t present. Despite that one small fact, she is balanced.
there is this Moira main on the forums, they are well know for their love of moira, I want you to guess how godly they are on ashe. they are god teir.
but Hey I guess they are a moira main right 
ashe must be a lockon hero as well.
Oh wait it isnt.
where did I say it was easy?
I said it aint the god tier skill you make it seem to be.
Anyone can literally learn to aim if they put effort into it.
Learn the game sense, awarness, etc the skills that do matter tho
those are the god tier skills that not any1 can learn as “easily” as aiming
(Not saying aiming is easy. heck took me a while to get used to hitscan but I got it, I am saying gamesense to aiming, learning to aim is ten times easier compared to learning gamesense. Doesnt mean that learning aiming in general is 10 times easier)
If you still percieve my comment as saying aim is the easiest skill
This is a hopeless case
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No really, everyone who needs to aim on Tracer, Genji and Ball need to do it while moving at high speed. Widow’s not that hard.
Moira’s beam is DESIGNED to hit fast moving targets. All those fast moving targets can (by definition) move out of range.
(hint: if you’re in moira’s range as widow, you suck).
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