Players of Overwatch need to acknowledge that aim is a skill

Okay? Well I don’t think the OP is trying to bully Moira players…

Correct me if I’m wrong but he just wants an equality among the roster as far as mechanical skill.

Regardless of Moira’s balance right now, lets even disregard Moira, listen to me for a moment…

Is it fair that some ranged heros can disregard mechanical skill entirely while other heros require it to perform?

You know if Moira is reworked to require aim she would then also get a buff in damage to compensate, it would only make sense to do so.

The hilarious thing about all the prople whining about Muh Skillz is that aiming is by far the least skillful thing there is.

All it is is hand eye coordination, muslce memory, and reaction time, 90% of which is basically unearned and requires absolutly no thought, no strategy, no positioning or game sense.

Low damage heros like Moira and Brig require about a thousand times as much effort and intelligence to get value out of them because they require all of the above.

Projectile heros like Junkrat require a ton of leading and physics.

Meanwhike a Hanzo or Widow clicking on heads requires lightning wrists…and that is about it.

If you are a Tracer, or a Hanzo, or a Widow and you got wrecked by a Brig or a Moira you got outplayed.

Period.

You had every advantage possible; damage, accuraccy, kit.

You got outplayed

And here you are on the forum anyways, whining like the little fenale canine you are, because Fod Forbid you learn something from it

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This is exactly the kind of response that justifies my thread.

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Yes, skill is very important. Skill gets you efficiency, towards a maximum power. A bad player gets 2/10 power, a good one gets 8/10 power, an excellent one gets 10/10 power. It NEVER goes over 10/10.
An ultra-skilled player who never failed should NOT have infinite power, which seems to be what you’re suggesting?

At maximum skill, players should not have a game breaking amount of power (it should not be overpowered), but it seems like that is what you want?

No, I’m saying players WILL get good at heroes, and use them incredibly well. I’m saying heroes should be balanced so that even the best players in the world arent breaking the game.

DPS arent disposable - that’s a laughable suggestion. 1 less player of any kind means the team is significantly weaker - 1 less DPS means DPS damage output is reduced hugely. It means less targets to focus down. It means less players to peel for the healers.

I’ve played plenty of instagib thanks, its nothing like an overwatch teamfight.

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And that’s how you render hard heroes useless.
At every single skill level that humanely possible they are weaker than easy heroes.
Therefore useless.

Playing well isn’t overpowered.

They are not going to break anything. Easy heroes will break the game, because they are better regardless of your skill level.

It’s a fact. Shield tanks are very significantly stronger than dps.

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Widow only requires aim, she does not have the highest skill cap in the game, anyone with half decent aim can be a threat to the enemy team to the point where’ll they switch to widow to counter her and tbh widow is the most braindead hero in the game, there’s no decision making involved, you can make up for bad positioning with aim

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No, its how you render harder heroes not overpowered. I’m not saying every hero should have the same cap of power, there should be a reward for playing well, but that reward should not render the character game breakingly powerful (which is the definition of overpowered).

Playing well isn’t overpowered - i’ve said this repeatedly. A hero that has the potential to be game breakingly powerful in the right hands is overpowered.

All heroes will break the game if they are overpowered, regardless of your skill level - the hard ones arent special.

Playing 5v6 is FAR more likely to be a loss, regardless of who dies.

Let me clarify this, since you seem to have massively misunderstood (maybe you’re not reading properly). I’m not saying everyone should be the same power. I’m not saying easy heroes should be as powerful as hard ones. I’m saying there’s a limit of power that ANY hero should have that, when passed, is bad.

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It’s not overpowered if you have to be proportionally better to achieve it.

Potential doesn’t matter. What’s actually achievable does.

Yeah they are. They have a skill check put onto them, that’s missing from easy heroes.

Losing a dps is inconvenient, losing a tank is catastrophic. That’s how the game works, because tanks are OP.

Power level is all relative though, so this really makes no sense.

Immobile heroes have their own ways of dealing with low aim heroes. McCree has flashbang, Mei has freeze and Ice Block, and they both outrange low aim heroes. Widowmaker has her grapple, which should put her far enough away from the fight that she can’t be reached, as well as burst damage that Moira can’t deal with.

It’s the equivalent of two of Tracer’s blinks with no vertical range. Not really mobile enough to chase a Widowmaker, ignoring how far out of Moira’s way she’d have to come to attack a Widow to begin with.

It’s not as big as you’re making it out to be. There are a few maps where it’s difficult to be more than 20 meters away, but those are the exception. This also ignores the vertical aspect that Moira lacks.

More of an observation. Every complaint you make on the forums are about heroes who shouldn’t be bothering you. Doomfist, Moira, there is no reason that they are able to kill you with the consistency you claim they do, unless you are doing something wrong.

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Yes, it is overpowered if its…OVERPOWERED. You definitely do not understand the concept of overpowered. Aim skill doesnt even come into it, its about the potential of the hero to do Overpowered, game breaking things. If something is too powerful, its just. too. powerful. Skill isn’t a balance - skill just gets you closer to its Overpowered potential. If 10 is the maximum acceptable power in the game and a hero can be pushed to 13 though skill, that’s. What. Overpowered. Is.

Potential matters, because people will achieve that potential eventually, or even on random chance. The maximum potential needs to be in realistic bounds as to not break the game. Achievable also matters, but that’s a goalpost that’s always moving as people get better. Achievable should also not be Overpowered.

Hard heroes arent special. They should have a higher power cap than easier ones, but should not be Overpowered.

Yeah, it doesnt sound like you play tanks or understand the logistics of a team fight. Losing a DPS is more than inconvenient.

Yes, power level is relative, harder heroes should have more power than easier ones, BUT, no hero should be Overpowered.

Over. [The the acceptable limit of.] Power.

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There still isn’t any absolute scale for power, so this still doesn’t make much sense.
I think you just want a higher TTK.

Not really. If you lose a dps (or two) you can just kill one of their’s too, with a single shot even. (And I’m not even necessarily talking about snipers!)

Tanks on the other hand can soak up a ridiculous amount of damage, while doing a good amount of damage themselves.

They are simply much more powerful characters than dps heroes, which is why they are so important.

Technically yes, but that doesn’t mean they counter them.
Moira is really only countered by sustain, which is pretty rare among dps.

I’d argue that the heroes that shouldn’t be bothering me, bother me because they are OP :slight_smile:
I’m also implicitly defending heroes that should and DO bother me.

Yeah, there is an absolute scale of power - i’ve been a game designer for 18 years, there’s 100% chance bliz have spreadsheets and calculations for exactly that.

Yes, i do want higher TTK. The time to kill someone shouldn’t be instant.

Lets get back to how you think its ok for characters to be Overpowered (to have too much power, therefore damaging the game) if they have aim requirement - explain more.

And no, tanks arent more powerful. Yes, they have more health but they dont have the range or methods of dealing damage as DPS do.

Looking at your time played on all heroes, you just dont play anything but widow. You have no experience on anything else, so it entirely makes sense that you dont understand team fights, team composition, overpoweredness and the relative power of other classes - you have no experience in any of it!

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That’s a lower TTK.

Skill requirement.
And if you really insist on this “absolute scale” nonsense, easy heroes need to be under powered then.

You didn’t look at my profile then.

Objectrively wrong.
Okay, technically they don’t have a sniper YET
That’s about it.

Dude, instant is a shorter Time To Kill (TTK) than every other number. I want a higher TTK which means kills take more time than none. Dictionary ->

Please explain why skill makes it ok to have game breakingly bad things in the game?

All the easy heroes have less power than broken overpowered ones.

I looked at your profile - 220 hours on widow and nothing on anything else. All DPS, no tanks or healers. You have more time on Torb than any tank or healer.

Objectively right, and you offer no counterpoint.

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Apparently I can’t read…

Because basically nobody will get there.

Wrong. Easy heroes are the strongest in the game, specifically because they are easy.

I have told my counter point many times, and you never refuted it.

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Doesn’t matter if nobody will get there, people will get close. People are FAR better at widow now than at the game’s release. Should they nerf widow every time players get better, or just make sure she’s not OP in the first place?

Easy heroes have a maximum power level that cannot be surpassed. That power is lower than hard heroes. People play easy heroes because of their consistency, not their power. I dont hit every sleep on Ana, so if i’m against a good Genji, i switch to moira.

I cant refute a counterpoint unless you give it.

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Why are you trying to nerf skill?

And it’s too high. Easy heroes very frequently rule the meta.
Also consistency is powerful on it’s own.

I have told you many times that there is hardly any trade offs between DPS and a tank, the only thing that dps still have going for them is that tanks do not yet have a sniper.

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Yes, aiming is a skill and as any skill it can be and it should be balanced.
For example:

  1. Reduce hitbox for sniping
  2. Force unscope after every shot.
  3. Increase random recoil.

Something has to be done to limit at least the one-shot potential.

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So basically what you are saying that you’d nerf Widow because she takes more skill than average?

No because she requires less skill than she gets the use out for it.
So the skill ceiling can be raised a bit.
And the aiming skills can still be improved, specifically for those who can appreciate it as a skill.

Maybe you will get more respect and understanding for ppl playing widow if everyone knows this is actually hard.