Patch Notes for October 21st Experimental Card w/ Video

[Toast-22632]

@FranckyFox24-1586

The team have been leaning torwards encouraging Direct hits and more aim for Junkrat which i am fine with.

Unless that aiming involves hitting shots that actually require skill. Spamming into targets at close range and punishing hitting difficult shots shouldn’t be how he’s designed.

It lowers his skill floor to zero and lowers his skill ceiling an equivalent amount.

[Sprklmufin-1212]

@Baja-11423

think its a safe bet people arent capable of that after seeing these forums over 5 years

wags finger
Passive aggressive comments count as well Baja

[inmater-21507]

• Torb: enjoyed him more than I expected, the changes make his kit more fluid and gives more uptime for engagements. I would like these changes for a nerf to his turret (either the range, the dps or hp) so the damage is less extreme
• Moira: the heal orb seems fine, the damage orb becomes more annoying sticking for longer on enemies
• Mccree: the midair roll gives him more flanking potential and alternative routes to use, while not broken on its own, he needs a nerf to fan the hammer as it does too much damage
• Junkrat: these changes seem to reinforce his close range playstyle which seems ok, the problem is the damage for directs can be too high for the spammy play style they require within those 15m, so I’d slightly reduce the directs

Also, if there is any way to ask the devs for more information on Zarya and Mei and their future balance changes it would be nice. They are not doing so amazing in the game right now, and for Mei specifically, I feel like reworking her role feels more natural for the character and a good way to give tank players a good design which fits more in their role.

[FranckyFox24-1586]

He still does a really high ammount of Damage even with the falloff, and you still need to land good skillshots at mid-range and in the open.

[Toast-22632]

@FranckyFox24-1586

He still does a really high ammount of Damage even with the falloff

78 damage on the 2nd slowest projectile, with an arc, is in no way “really high damage”

[AndyB-11735]

@Toast-22632

Would you be able to share this with the devs and ask them if they think it’s fair to punish Junk players who are skilled enough to consistently hit these shots?

I’ll add this to the summary we’ll send along tomorrow.

[Toast-22632]

@AndyB-11735

I’ll add this to the summary we’ll send along tomorrow

Thanks!

[Baja-11423]

maybe on this thread…but ive mentioned MANY times how aggravating i find the hyperbole and exaggeration on here…im usually very forward about it

[LGBTRightsXD-2746]

Can you ask the devs why they thought the interaction between mccree and doomfist needed to be more lobsided ?

[Onesickchef-1131]

I tested Junkrat and Moira

I think the Moira changes are good especially for making more effective use of her healing orb. The damage orb did not seem much more effective to use or any more annoying to play into.

The Junkrat changes not sure I like. It was fun to be able to melt tanks so fast, but not sure that is great for tanks. It also changes his fighting range, so his mayhem finished off a few tanks I couldn’t melt in time. Also while one shotting a random blinking Tracer a few times was funny as there was no skill just a lucky random hit, I don’t think that is great either.

I don’t think the Junkrat changes should go through. Moira changes seem solid though.

[Taykor-11989]

I think that the McCree changes are actually really good in a world where he doesn’t have 225 HP. It is just kind of overboard for a character who already has a stun. Extra health, air mobility, and and CC is too much IMO. I know he is meant to counter flankers/dive but I don’t like when OW gets too rock, paper, scissors feeling. The Moira changes I don’t like but really don’t make much of a difference anyways. Overload armor should be nerfed too if they intend it to be an offensive ability as to not allow best of both worlds, overload changes are solid though. The Junkrat changes are a great IDEA, not chage, IMO. I think it might take more than number changes to get Junk where the devs want him, hopefully a bigger rework for him on the way in OW2. But the idea of junk being closed ranged and having weak spam is very welcome.

[Meowjoker-1311]

Nah, understatment of the decade.

Only Twitter is worse at this.

[KucingIsCat-1260]

@Kaedi-11739

long-range direct hit damage will be much lower than before.

i like this one, long range spam without aim not killing instantly. like in eichenwalde bridge.

[Onesickchef-1131]

Maybe, but I’m not a fan of having projectile heroes with falloff. Overall I think the Junkrat changes are bad.

[Hige-1101]

Hey Andy here’s my feedback:

Junkrat: I like it, you are incentivized to use your passive by making bold plays that could lead to your death BUT you might take a few with you, his passive is so overlooked that I think it’s nice you get to use it strategically

McCree: His ult ramps up way too fast now, it’d be interesting if instead he’d didn’t get slowed during deadeye

Moira: good change for healing orb, not so good for damage orb, I do like that the randomness of the orb is somewhat removed

Torbjorn: feels the same (though if I may add, I’ve always disliked his shotgun… rivet gun is more than enough)

[ĦELLHOUND-2423]

After playing the experimental card for a couple of games these are the things that stood out to me the most:

McCree: To begin with did not need any buffs considering he’s already a very strong pick in almost every situation across all ranks. the buff itself is nice but if we’re gonna buff him why not take away the 225HP buff that’s keeping him a top contender in the meta.

Torbjörn: Generally a very welcome buff, his primary fire outshines his secondary fire by a lot and I feel as this should help with that.

Junkrat: If you’re looking to buff Junkrat you should just nerf Soldier as he’s one of the main reasons why Junk doesn’t see a lot of play anymore. That being said, he now feels worse for Junkrat players that like to hit skillshots and he also feels absurdly bad to play against as a Tank, I played a few Hog games and I was getting deleted if I didn’t have my heal up or constantly played around corners because the damage amplification from discord orb along with the 150 damage nades were just melting me.

Moira: I think she needs a little more but this is definitely a step in the right direction, it’s 100% gonna help her teamfight because the orbs will stick to players easier causing more healing/damage output.

Overall I’m pretty disappointed to see McCree get buffs when characters like Reaper, Genji and Doomfist are being neglected, not to mention that they’re the heroes who suffer from McCree the most. Doomfist is probably the biggest loser of this patch because Junkrat and McCree now just make him useless in close combat.

[Taigavia-1513]

Thanks! I would love to see that falloff change reverted, or this whole Junkrat change taken to the drawing board for review. It just feels like he can’t do anything other than act like a poor Reaper now. I feel like he takes skills to play now with his changes, and I get more reward from shooting the floor and having Tracer trip over the grenade than trying to go for air shots, ranged shots, turrets, or really anything that is outside Reaper’s range. When Junkrat is struggling to break a stationary Torb turret, it feels like something has gone horribly wrong.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@AndyB-11735

Let’s work together to make sure your experience is clearly communicated to the devs.

Okay then, how about I give this a whirl.

JUNKRAT

Frag Launcher (Primary Fire)

• Explosion radius size and Projectile size shrinks with the first 2 bounces
  • Explosion radius starts at 2m wide, with a Projectile size of 0.3m (Increased from 0.2m)
  • After 1 bounce, the explosion radius reduces to 1.6m wide, and projectile size is decreased to 0.2m radius
  • After 2 bounces, the explosion radius reduces to 1.2m wide, and projectile size is decreased to 0.1m radius
    * Note this can be coded as a falloff radius with a minimum of 0 damage, with a falloff range between 0m and 1.6m from center. This way the object shape of the explosion does not change. The edges where it does zero damage just gets bigger.

Comments: The goal here is to reduce the “spam” aspect of a grenade ricocheting halfway across the map, that feels very unpredictable and random. And an unplanned attack, feels like an unearned attack. This is what makes it feel “unfair” or distressing to die to. (i.e. similar concept with the infuriating aspect of dying to a stray Moira orb). With the above changes, even though you may get hit by richochets, it’s going to be more and more certain that you got hit, and when you had the opportunity to dodge. Additionally it gives greater skill expression to skilled/veteran Junkrat players, by making it more reliable to land direct hit shots. With older players remembering how his projectile size used to be 0.3m.

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That said, an alternative approach, would be the way the TF2 Demoman Grenade Launcher deals with grenade launcher spam, where the grenade can no longer explode on contact at all after a bounce. Or in this case, pretty much exactly what the current patch is doing, but have the reduced damage tied to bounces, instead of distance.

Grenade Launcher - Official TF2 Wiki | Official Team Fortress Wiki

For example:

JUNKRAT

Frag Launcher (Primary Fire)

• Projectile size of increased to 0.3m radius, up from 0.2m
• Damage starts at 120
• After 1 bounce, damage is reduced to 100
• After 2 bounces, damage is reduced to 80

Comments: The goal here is to reduce the “spam” aspect of a grenade ricocheting halfway across the map, that feels very unpredictable and random. And an unplanned attack, feels like an unearned attack. This is what makes it feel “unfair” or distressing to die to. (i.e. similar concept with the infuriating aspect of dying to a stray Moira orb). With the above changes, even though you may get hit by richochets, it’s going to be more and more certain that you got hit, and when you had the opportunity to dodge. Additionally it gives greater skill expression to skilled/veteran Junkrat players, by making it more reliable to land direct hit shots. With older players remembering how his projectile size used to be 0.3m.

[Koechophe-11425]

I’ll be honest, as a tank main, I feel frustrated with this patch.

The Rat and Torb changes both give those heroes more tools to burst down tanks quickly. With rat particularly, him being able to chunk half of a tank’s health in 2 shots (without even having to headshot) feels pretty awful, not gonna lie.

It’s frustrating for me that you guys keep saying you’re not trying to push the game towards deathmatch and that tanks will feel powerful, and then to push out changes like this where DPS get straight buffs that make tanks die quicker.

If the plan is to make tanks weaker holistically and DPS stronger, I really do wish you’d just tell us.

[AndyB-11735]

@GreyFalcon-11737

Okay then, how about I give this a whirl.

While I do certainly appreciate your creativity and intent, this is the least useful kind of feedback.

I addressed this in another thread, so I’ll let my previous words do their work;

@AndyB-11735

This is actually the least useful kind of feedback for almost any development process. Jumping straight to the solution without having a thorough understanding of the root cause of friction minimizes the role of designers and can often lead to “fixes” that don’t take in the full width and breadth of a given area of frustration.

We do love to see player inspired designs and ideas. We tend to contextualize them in the same way we do fanart or cosplay.

@AndyB-11735

Sharing your own personal experience with the topic is always the most useful feedback we can receive. Tell us what’s causing friction, how it’s affecting your play experience, how it makes you feel.

We can pull numbers until we’re red in the face. Anecdotal feedback about player experience provides said numbers with context that’s impossible to quantify.