OW Pros talk about why D.Va is OP

General Discussion
283

Everybody was in dive meta. Instead we got Brigitte, and the game got a lot worse.

Reasonable. We are in a 3 tank 3 support meta. And half of the reason being that tanks are all competitive in damage with dps heroes.

There is an argument to be made that it counters too much. Dive were a lot less oppressive if you could have run heroes like Reaper and Bastion to shoot dive heroes, but Dva and Winston bubble happened.

Many of the issues of this game are here because the game tries to be different for the sake of being different.
There are good ideas in this game, but gimmicks kinda took over the game play.

284

i dont think removing mobility from heroes will make the game any better… it would be easier to make a whole new game than reworking every single hero to please taimous wishes.

everyone knows mobility heroes are strong, its not big news… also a lot of people asking for dive to come back “because its the most fun comp”. people always dislike any meta and find things to complain about.

285

Just to put dive to context, dive was meta between a quad tank meta, and a triple tank triple support meta…
Dive is definitely better than those.

286

IMO, the pros can take a hike. The game started circling the drain when the devs started focusing more on the OWL and their experience than the millions of people who play the game for fun. The mistake being made is that the pros are a way to identify portions of the game balance wise that aren’t working correctly, not as a source of ways to fix those things.

Of course it’s important to keep balance in mind for all tiers of the game, but at the pro scene you are looking at less than 1% of players who will brutally abuse any and all aspects of the game to the farthest reaches they can, regardless if it is beyond the capability of 99+% of the player base to replicate these same things. To change hero balance purely around what the top less than 1% can do is in many ways the same as removing Torb and Sym turrets because its too oppressive for the bottom less than 1% of players who can’t/wont respond to something hurting them or have the ability to shoot it. Instead of looking at butchering a hero to stop it from being abusable when used at the closest to perfection you can find, they should be focusing more on “why isn’t this being countered?” If the counter does what its supposed to, the counter should win every time considering they’re both being played by pros and are executed at as close to ideally as possible. If the counter doesn’t win under ideal situations, the counter isn’t a proper counter and is the source of the problem in that situation. If the counter isn’t being played the way it’s supposed to, the kit may need to be reviewed to see why it isn’t. In many cases in this game, THAT is where the problem is, and its more often being fixed by breaking the offending hero instead of fixing/introducing a proper counter.

But that’s just my 2 cents on it.

287

id give you a like but i am out, also the summary for the thread is kind of funny and pretty much what you said lol…

288

But I’m not saying we should nerf tanks? I don’t follow, sorry.

289

I think she’s considered a counter because she’s one of the only characters who can bypass the defense matrix with her primary. She’s a counter because she’s only one of the few who can deal with one of the strongest abilities in the game.

290

The core design of d’va is her mech’s mobility. You change that, and you will end up completely screwing up her balance in either way.

I know that she has the lowest DPS in the game, but people have to remember that actually comes with something positive: consistency. She’s able to keep firing without reloading, and she can keep on poking enemies and causing pressure when others have to back off. Her finisher is her micro missles, but it’s important to realize that her cannons do cause her to at least keep a small amount of pressure, and once she gets her micro missiles back, she’s back to being a threat. But I don’t think you can add a reload/overheating mechanic to her in that case: it would make her an ineffective tank as it’s her constant pressure that opens up a hole for the team to break through with: and that’s a tanks role.

Which means balance wise, you’re looking at Defense matrix or Micro missiles. One of the possible balance tweaks brought up has been disabling defense matrix when using micro missiles, and honestly, I believe that’s worth experimenting with. Again, Missiles are D’vas big damage to put a kill over the top: and forcing her to be smarter with it and not allowing the matrix during it would be an interesting change. I say interesting because I go back and forth on how effective it would be. Without the threat of DM, people would focus on a diving dva and she’d get ripped apart. But, on the other hand, it’s part of what makes d’va so flexible, the fact that she can dva in with the threat of protection. It could be a situation where the idea of overheating would play: that she can use defense matrix when missiling, but its cost increases on the resource meter to double what it is before. Keep the threat there: but make it more costly to use.

But let’s not beat around the bush here: Of all the abilities in the game, Defense Matrix is one of the strongest, if not the strongest. Its mere existence means you have to be weary of losing your ultimates to her, and may cause you to move to other targets just by its presence alone. The thing is, in a single one v one situation, that may not be a problem, but in a team fight, the threat alone is strong enough to change entire strategies, and targets.

My suggested change is simple: move her defense matrix a little out. A LITTLE. Its range is 15 meters as a whole, and I would say start the matrix at 1.5 or 2 meters from here. I believe her initial iteration was something like 3-4. Allow characters who get in her face to be able to bypass the matrix, and force the issue against D’va. You would have to experiment with this, she needs the ability to protect allies with it consistently. But it would put an emphasis on body placement as well, forcing a bit more precision when protecting an ally. It would keep the character’s core strengths in tact, while giving opponents a slight work around to deal with her. The thing is, she has a built in weapon that excels at that close range, so you’d have to get into her wheel house in order to get around it.

I think that’d keep the core strength of the character together, while also boosting other characters effectiveness on her (Reaper comes to mind) that may lead to a more balanced meta.

291

Brilliant idea. Doesn’t turn her into a squishy, does make it harder.

292

if there is reload i rather they just remove the slow down while shooting entirely and make her like everyone else that can move at 100%

also i think right now she is played differently on ladder than in the pro scene entirely hence the entirely different pick rate. pros play her still more like a peel bot and on the ladder she is play more like a dps

293

We back on D.va again eh

This nerf circle jerk never ends

1 Like
294

I still stand by my theory that a reload would not affect D.Va’s state to a significant amount unless it was blatantly an oppressive one.

295

eh i rather they not touch dva right now and just come up with a solution for the pro scene because they will always pick the same 6 heroes and causes nerf to the roster.

rather they use a ban system in the pro league or do the arcade system of lock out so every hero gets played

296

That’s why I don’t agree with a reload; it just adds clunkiness while not solving what the crowd is complaining about this time.

297

yea, do you have a solution for the pro scene though since the whole dva fiasco stems from it

i mean blizzard didnt like people going 76 hog ana every game back during arcade so they implemented lock out 3v3 and it kind of worked in diversifying the hero roster…

298

Introduce more off-tanks that can compete. Other than that, there’s no reason to cater to the pro scene. And fix Hog.

299

Blizzard and OWL see things differently in relation to the pro scene, just saying.

I agree 100% that more off-tanks will help though.

300

DVA is NOT going to get nerfed thank you, next.

1 Like
301

thing is if we leave the pro scene alone they will always complain and scapegoat a hero regardless because i assume their coach makes them play meta which affects ladder.

i been thinking too, i feel that people on ladder as a whole plays dva way different compare to the pros hence the drastic difference in preference for offtank/role. people seem to use dva as dps on ladder and the pros seems to use her more as a peel bot .

also im totally out of likes otherwise i will try to boost your forum account with it (i think it helps or something)

302

i heard something on reddit is that dva in the pro scene actually is the offtank and zarya is the dps hence they tend to put a dps on zarya. on ladder people seem to prefer to offtank with zarya and actually use dva as a dps

hence the drastic different pick rate