Overwatch, Is It Worth The Trouble?

Hello everyone, I came across this topic for discussion,

and albeit it being almost a year ago, i personally found many points outside of league chat to be very real and relating. I dont have enough time to play alot or to do all the league stuff, but lately, over the course of the last 5 months or so, I’ve found myself in a general state of decline towards my love for Overwatch.

I started this game since Day0, Iits been so long i cant even remember if there was a beta but if there was i was in it. Im no pro at this game, and i really appreciated how i was able to just sit down and not really have to put hours into a game to play for enjoyment. I was very happy with the couple hours a day that came later in my overwatch career. It was fun, exciting, new developments. The ranking system, not so bad, but yet needed some work. They tried something, and ever since then, the whole competitive scene for me just tanked. Which brings me to my 1st point.

  1. Competitive Matching

A ranked game of any sort on any competitive level (I am a very competitive person, even if im not pro material), deserves absolute equality. What does this mean?
If I’m playing a match designed as a 6 vs 6, in what world, is 5 vs 6 acceptable? If there is a disconnection, and it should be able to be detected through means of dev coding, [[ Note, I know nothing of development of games so I’m taking an educated guess here but bottom line is there should be an answer that works to match what I’m saying]] the match should ultimately be voided. not just before the 1st minute. A fair match is only a fair match as long as it remains by any capacity, a fair match. There should be no SR losses, and no queing penalties for the disconnector. “POOP” happens , alright, we all get it.
[[[[ Which brings me to todays current issue, “Throwing”. We all just LOVE all those people willing to pay $40 for an account just to piss every else off in the community. Join a game, throw it into the ground, or just leave because, hey, who cares! This is creating more SR loss for serious players trying to play FAIR. We dont pay $40 to play this game and endure this kind of behavior. Its childish nonsense. Again, these matches should be null and voided. ]]]
As a person who actively uses the reporting system, I can’t tell you how many reports I’ve sent in and I’m just getting sick of having to send them in irregardless. This whole leaver or thrower crap going on is just like a virus. You think you get ahead, reporting the players, or removing the virus with a suspended account, but there’s just another person to fill in the spot, willing to spend that $40 to not care at all and ruin the experience because causing the dismay is actually fun for them and worth the payment. They just keep coming and coming.
And that’s that. Now on to my second point.

  1. Competitive MatchMaking

So, us players who have put in hundreds or thousands of hours into Overwatch, and may not be the blessed people to be a pro but just a standard casual player but maybe still way better then even new players, who are continuously plagued by the throwing community in Overwatch, end up indeed tanking SR so bad, that we are in silver or bronze. And then to top it off, here is Blizzard’s brilliant system at work here, you start seeing that you get queued with bunches of new players!!! Aint nothing more fantastic then getting paired with a bunch of noobs [ Hey guys, quick note for new players, we love ya’ll, we all have been new once upon a time and performed just the same (although some of you may be blessed to be a high level player at the very get go) so no offense by any means to you guys! ] and then see that the other team actually has a team full of stars or EXPERIENCE. Sorry, but as stated in point 1. , where is the equality, as so deserved, in a competitive ranking match? Oh, but the fun doesn’t stop there.
Guess what Blizzard!? Those lovely chaps that love paying $40 to just piss people off? Yeah those, guys, they have NEW “B.S” accounts, they don’t care if they get banned. And, those are considered new player accounts. So they get queued with us in silver or bronze too! “Applause”
The match making system that blizzard employs for whatever reason, in both hearthstone and overwatch to my knowledge ( these are the only two i play) both really STINK. I have never been a fan of it. You get queues that you seem over the top or with full advantage, and then you get some vice versa. You get stomped. Every once in a blue moon, you get that game that through it all you all are fighting it head to toe, and it LITERALLY feels GOOD, it soaks you with FAIRNESS and EQUALITY. Its the match that at the end of it, everyone realizes those feelings above, and acknowledges it with a " WOW guys, really good game there". Instead of your EZ GG or You’re A SMURF + HAX!!

Again, I know nothing of development, but come on, I’ve played other games and they feel nothing like the above when matched up. And so that brings me to my last point.

  1. Loss of INTEREST

I have a full list of friends. And of those individuals, a handful of them wont even play overwatch unless they have their certain group on. Others only will play quickplay or arcade. Some others just are out on the hunt for the next big thing to play. I myself, started playing elsewhere. I used to LOVE coming home and hoping on Overwatch, but these days… “EH.” It’s not so much all the reworks of characters and having to relearn how to play, but the constant SR punishment for B.S. is just over the top. you have to put in 6 hours a night to make that climb to the next rank on a really good night (This, I have done a couple times) all to just have it lost by bad luck or SR PUNISHMENT the next day in a matter of 1 hour. This is a joke and unacceptable. Everytime it happens, I feel such distaste for this game and blizzard. Eventually, if things don’t change, I’m just going to quit. And maybe if enough people feel the same or when they make the change, and blizzard loses its community for overwatch for the most, they will realize some of the things they should’ve payed attention to.

Hope you all found what I had to say insightful. What are some thoughts you all have on the matter? Share them, create a voice that may be heard. Thanks!

3 Likes

I’ve been playing since beta and have played heavily since. I don’t see myself ever stopping because of how well Overwatch does what it does. When this game is played correctly (in a coordinated and cooperative way) there’s nothing that beats it.

The problems this game has are a symptom of what makes this game great: player agency and a true focus on teamwork. Think about the most common player complaints. From what I’ve seen, they are:

  1. People won’t build solid team comps
  2. People won’t work together
  3. People won’t try their hardest to win
  4. Smurfs are ruining my games
  5. I lose SR when my teammates leave the match (aren’t as reliable as me).

All of these are legitimate problems that exist but the solution to all of them is players changing their behavior. No amount of changes Blizzard could possibly REASONABLY implement will alleviate any of these issues, nor should they. The way the game and especially the competitive system is designed, the people that do best are the people who ARE team players, who do build solid team comps, communicate well with their team, learn to enable each other, are truly skilled at the game, and, above all, try their hardest. There’s no artificial fix for people who won’t/can’t do any of these things.

Here’s why I keep playing:

  1. Everyone is on a level playing field. Nobody has better gear than you. From day one, you have the same access to every hero and piece of equipment that everybody else in the game has.

  2. Results and teamwork are all that matters. You only gain points for winning matches and you only lose points when you lose.

  3. Skill is all that sets you apart from your peers. You’re not going to win because your grinded through that raid and got a slightly better gun; You’re only going to win if you’re better than the red team.

  4. The gameplay mechanics are fantastic and very well polished. It just feels good to play. Sure, bugs pop up sometimes, but that’s true of every constantly-evolving game.

  5. I never, ever, ever, ever, EVER experience connection issues with Overwatch. It’s the only game I can think of where I don’t have to worry about lag or disconnecting at least occasionally.

  6. There’s a huge variety of ways to play. There’s no one right answer to any situation and there are very few hard counters (I can count them on one hand). Creativity is encouraged and it’s possible to outplay seemingly unfavorable situations through creativity and skill (more than just clicking better than them).

I’ve found that I have a probably unpopular view of the game but I think it’s because I believe the core of the game is already what it should be and very strong. I appreciate what makes Overwatch different from every other shooter. I can’t think of another one that’s more about skill and teamwork and/or better about rewarding both. Hopefully more people can focus on the positives and improve their own play despite all of the bad teammates out there that act as obstacles along the way.

6 Likes

I keep taking long breaks and coming back, finding a little enjoyment for a period of time then that enjoyment quickly fades and I have to walk away for a few months. The length of time that enjoyment lasts gets shorter and shorter each time.

The biggest issue I have right now is that the game hasn’t fundamentally changed, basically ever. While the consistency is a good thing, what that ends up meaning is that a lot of the magic and wonder has been replaced by grind.

Ults were the big unique feature for OW among similar games, and now everyone knows what they are, how they work, and what to do/not to do. We’ve reached a point where using an ult is more times than not a net LOSS because the hero is impaired when doing so.

By the time you hear “It’s high-” or “nerf th-” everyone is behind cover. The ults are effectively useless. And yes I do recognize the disrupting effect they have, but that isn’t their point. They used to be the source of large kill counts, plays of the game, and battle field shifts. Now they’re just… sound effects.

Even the ults that are less spectacular but easy to avoid are basically negated as everyone pretty much knows if you see character XYZ flanking its because they probably have ult, so go get them.

All this doesn’t even begin to address the now numerous abilities they basically directly negate ults all together. It used to basically just be Zen that could do this but now we have Bap who can completely undo an Ult on a short CD pretty much every time.

As average player skill goes up, fun generally tends to go down.

The crazy break out plays start to happen less and less, to the point where they’re basically zero. I think this is why it feels like snipers are suddenly this huge problem and why Widow is in the spotlight. A good Widow is as effective, if not more effective, than a grav/nano/blade so suddenly snipers flicking headshots are doing most of the killing.

Now you obviously cant just change up the whole game, that’s a sequel not a patch or update. The one resource they continually seem to under utilize to help a lot of players stave off burnout is the arcade.

Why Mayhem isn’t a permanent fixture, I’ll never know

Why Mystery Mayhem isn’t a thing, I’ll never know

Why all old PVE events aren’t available (hell, even just one at a time) always, I’ll never know

Why they dont innovate and use the arcade to try drastically new game modes, like say a 8v8 or 9v9, I’ll never know.

Why a 6v6 team death match isn’t an arcade option, I’ll never know

The biggest thing this game needs, and truly at this point need is the correct term, is more variety for the players, as well as experimentation with entirely new game modes.

We aren’t being allowed to enjoy the game, we’re being told how we should enjoy the game.

3 Likes

I think this is one of the main issues for many people who say the game is less fun than it used to be. When the game was new, nobody really knew what they were doing. Weird team comps worked frequently as long as they included at least one tank and one support. People didn’t know backward and forward how to counter every hero. People had fun learning about new heroes and trying out different styles.

Now, the average player is much better than they used to be. People who are gold now could probably outplay masters from season 2. I went back and watched some old video from when I hit masters in season 2 and GM in season 3 and it was pretty funny to me how many things nobody was doing right. I hit masters for the first time with most of my time played on Tracer because it was easy for her to capitalize on the fact that nobody was coordinated or knew how to deal with her. I’m still at that SR level but I probably couldn’t play Tracer that effectively anymore just because people have mostly figured her out.

I’m not saying there’s a problem; I’m just saying I understand why the magic is gone for many. I find enjoyment in always trying to improve with every hero and trying to climb higher and higher. I finally broke 4100 SR and hit T500 a couple of seasons ago and I’m hoping to get back up there soon (had a REALLY bad season and dropped to 3500 something this season). I enjoy the challenge.

This is why I think they need to expand the arcade.

For many the grind in the current game where everyone knows everything, big silly plays do not happen, and skill is king is what they like

But for an equally large (if not larger) group the feeling of silly fun is what they like. The game has the capacity for both but only caters to the former, not the latter.

1 Like

Playing since beta and it is the best game i ever played. Don’t see me stopping it in the next years.

I honestly believe this would cut down on the “toxicity” in the game as well. How many of the really bad interplayer interactions (especially in QP) are because half the team wants to just faff about and have fun while half the team wants to win at all costs?

When you have serious players and casual players on the same team, no one wins. The serious players are mad at the casual players for not trying hard enough or doing well enough. And the casual players are mad because the serious players are ruining the fun for them by making it more than they want it to be

Kinda been talking a break from Overwatch.

But mostly because I got engaged, got a condo, was unemployed, got a high paying job.

And because I tried doing Overwatch with two IRL friends, and the whole situation felt too aggro. So we just stick to Apex. Because by the time you start feeling aggro, you’re already in another game.
Also when you are aggro in Apex, you can just stick to non-verbal communications until you calm down.

I’d argue a fair amount of these are on Blizzard.

Virtually everyone likes to win and at least somewhat dislikes losing.

If people are following a non-optimal strategy it suggests you have problems with the design as the incentive to win/not lose has been exceeded by other things.

It’s also why people can end up disliking a game as players get better because the meta strategies frequently aren’t fun for some or most of the players.

Compare the GM pickrates for Orisa in Comp to QP. She’s @ 13.60% on XBL, 11.90 % on PSN, and 10.10% on PC in comp. But, if you check the QP stats she’s @ 2.79% on XBL, 2.34% on PSN, and 2.97% on PC. While some of the losses are from people being sick of playing the same hero and some may be that some of the more serious GM’s may never enter into QP I suspect much of the loss is that people simply do not want to play Orisa.

2 Likes

You’re right that winning sometimes means playing in a way other than you want to play. For example, I’m a flex player, which means I usually end up playing main tank or support. It’s not because I want to play those heroes specifically; It’s because I want to win. I do enjoy those roles from time to time but I also like some variety, which is why I flex in the first place.

Tanks are generally less popular for many reasons but I don’t think they’re balance-related. It’s like that in every game that has tank/DPS/Support roles. Tanks have a less-easily-quantifiable responsibility and more of an obligation to play around their team, which is just generally less appealing to most than a lone wolf DPS player that feels like they’re more free to be and do what they want (even if they should probably also being playing more around the team).

More people would build solid team comps if all of the roles were equally fun, but I don’t think there’s a way to make other roles have the same mass appeal of DPS, even if they are very well balanced and fun for some.

1 Like

These are all true. But we need to add something

  1. My teammates ruin my games with toxicity

No.

Is dead and irrelevant.

There’s that, too. I actually thought about that after I’d already made the post. It hold true, though. That’s a player issue. Blizzard could do something more about that but it would require less automation, which would mean much more staff to go through all of the reports and really make solid judgments. If that’s feasible, I’d love to see them do it.

Obviously untrue or you wouldn’t be here posting on its forums.

Smurfing is odd but a necessary evil to keep the queues alive and ranks in line. I used to primarily play on XBL, where almost everyone has an alt account. It is annoying, but at the same time smurf stacks and smurfing in general acts as a skill gate to keep people away from Diamond and above by virtue of stomping all the casual players in a given rank. I don’t agree with this, but if your stack is on a win streak, you WILL come across smurfs eventually who will show you what play two ranks above you looks like. Unfortunately, this ruins stats for everyone because smurfs give Platinum and Gold false baselines for stat averages, and screw with the stats of players who aren’t smurfing. If you’re going against smurfs, expect the worst k:d game of the night.

For what it’s worth, high performing players near the top of a rank will be pitted with and against Smurfs in that tank until they can climb out. These smirfs will be mixed in with the people who are anxious about scoring the next emblem as well as people who are afraid of losing their rank and are playing badly as a result. Sometimes to win a game you need a smurf who doesn’t give a damn in order to simply outplay the enemy. Other times you will be stomped into the pavement and your next few games will feature lots of other “under-performers” from the rank who can’t grasp what you’re trying to accomplish. That’s what usually begins a loss streak. I have noticed that once you cross the threshold of the next rank, the games can become significantly easier because you are no longer being pitted against the most superior player(s) from the previous rank.

Smurfing is ALSO necessary because look at my profile. I was at 2800 before my Gold ranked friends wanted to do placements with me. They have been dragging me down because I am a much better player than they are AND am low level “smurfing” because I am skilled on another platform. This resulted in getting constant placement games with one high Plat smurfing on the enemy team in a 3 stack just generally dominating the lobby and laying waste to our teams. My two friends couldn’t cope with it , and my teammates were also placed in a bad situation with no hopes of winning because they’ve never been pitted against a Widowmaker/Doomfist/Pharah/McCree/Soldier/Ashe with that much skill and know-how before. Meanwhile I can handle the pressure but cannot fight back reliably because 1-2 players cannot realistically dismantle a smurfing stack unless the stacks on your team are try-Harding too. My win rate has plummeted because MY GOLD RANKED FRIENDS ARE DRAGGING ME DOWN BECAUSE THEY CANT FIGHT SMURFS instead they crap themselves, start randomly switching heroes and feeding. Also, these are all Gold games “under the hood” so not only am I playing in a rank I do not belong in, but I am losing 30-40 SR for a loss, and only winning up to 20 when we can eke out a win against a dominant smurfing stack or (god forbid) two. The SR variance is part of the penalties which discourage players from playing in ranks they don’t belong to, compounded by (PBSR) poor stats due to our team behind ripped apart and yielding the entire map to the enemy because they don’t know how to play against it.

It’s only taken me 5-6 losses to reliant there is zero hope of winning games in a rank I don’t belong in against players who are skilled while I am in a team of incompetence. Yes you could say that I am ruining my own queues and my friends’ queues by not solo queueing into my own surf games where the skill of all players is basically the same across the lobby. I understand that in order to compete with my friends without digging myself deeper into the bowels of Platinum, I need to invest in a Gold or Silver smurf so I can help my friends win games in Gold without exposing them to Plat smurfs because of my MMR

I think there are elements of game design that… shall we say encourage toxicity.

I remember doing this on an alt (slightly higher rank than my main). I had a friend who was a bit high for me to play with so despite that he got an account down. Despite trying to just mess around playing with heroes he didn’t know the game still wanted him out. Despite this I played very few games where i did just as well as him (For context this is high plat vs high bronze so it’s rather extreme but roadhog vs hanzo around 40 elims each).
What’s interesting is that in one of these games i knew the opponents from my main and they never suspected me of smurfing but they did him.

I’m not going to bother defending smurfing, It does ruin games for players. That game I talked about stopped a guy from playing with someone he wanted to (and before you call me selfish I made it up in the next two games for him).

There are legitimate reasons for doing so however, most likely playing an ordered environment with friends. To me this should not be for the purposes of boosting (and when I played with this person I tried to rebalance my rank on my alt), or throwing. I think this is the only acceptable reason for smurfs to exist but great care needs to be taken to ensure integrity of competitive play if done so.

The game does notice as well. No matter what happened when I played with this person he gained far more SR then me for a win, even in the case where he doesn’t do as much as me in the same role.

I have also noticed this, but I no longer notice smurfs

If you smurf for any reason other than playing the game with someone else/smurf with intention to “boost” another player, intentionally throw games to smurf. You are a terrible person. If you smurf a reasonable distance to play games with a friend without throwing, (leaving at the end once the win is assured is ok), and without any intention to boost then it’s ok. However it’s very easy to step over this boundary and the line is very fine. It’s easy to go in with good intentions and ruin a game.

When I see a person with a win rate on Torb of 5%, with a lot of games, and a win rate on Tracer of 90% with a lot of games.

I begin to suspect there is quite a lot Blizzard could reasonably do to detect and deal with such things.

RoleQ could do a lot for removing toxicity depending on its implementation.

I can tell you blizzard does but it works slowly and can be navigated around. Again, the line is very fine and needs the utmost care taken to ensure that games are still fair. When I played with my friend we did fail in one game (although that was because I “knew the opponent” and then I just carried two games anyway)

I don’t agree with this, because Toxicity is really only there when people are losing. I agree that a minor element of “redacted smurf” may be harder to accomplish but one could just keep their “tank” SR down to smurf, so I don’t think this solves the problem.

I just had a match that really hammered home the point that Ults are basically high situational cheese buttons, anymore.

On Mystery of all modes I get McCree and manage to build up an Ult without dying. I take a good vantage and pop High Noon. The one Genji that just got out of spawn immediately hits deflect and now instead of 3 kills and a deflect that kills me his shot registers first (despite locking 3rd and being farthest away) and I just get dead.

This happens over and over. The only meaningful Ults anymore are the defensive ones. All overtly and potential powerful offensive Ults are almost boiled down to quick-time-events for the enemy team now.

Anymore it really feels like pressing Q is a BAD idea, seems like more people get killed by using an Ult than do by an Ult.

The more I think about it the more this feels like the real root of my dissatisfaction for the game recently. All the magic, wonder, and fun are gone. A lot of the unique and interesting aspects of the various heroes have all been countered, countered again, and countered again after that, that it feels like you’re really just shooting, rather than engaging.