Overwatch 2’s Complexity from a Discussion with Students

[Hitscant-2185]

og ow low cooldowns was 7 secs. now 7secs is a long cooldown. they messed up the game for good. its not complex, its super complicated to the point we, old players since season1 ow1, cant keep up with all the numbers and percentages and hp changes and all the if this then that bs

[Sentai-11868]

This is where story mode is needed, with story they can properly explain a hero’s ability and have mission tied to using those abilities, and have character vs character boss fights to allow players to experience fighting those heroes, and yes like you an expanded vs AI is need.
Both ideas are needed a way to teach new players in fun ways.
This how Street Fighters 6 and Smash does it.

[NeonWight-13138]

I think all of your suggestions are bad. I want new heroes, new maps, and I don’t want slow boring gameplay.

[Sassay-1798]

This has how Hanzo has always been, outside of one brief stint in the past few months of OW2. The game was still fun and fair for a number of years with him having the one shot capability. Hyper-mobile heroes have actually been the root cause of a loot of issues within the game, so this patch was supposed to be a massive win (yet they somehow managed to avoid nerfing the two most mobile heroes in the game).

I agree that some characters need their damage numbers tuned down, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to one shot.

Instead of removing the ability to one shot entirely, they should be minimizing the chances of landing a successful headshot (via things like a smaller projectile size and less damage, so that 300 HP characters require two headshots) and increasing the punishment for missing (via things like reduced body shot damage). This not only reigns in the power of one-shot characters, but also allows room to nerf hyper-mobile heroes.

[Applesoup-1346]

@Auxi-2690

C = H * (H - 1) * F

where:

•	C represents the complexity,
•	H is the number of heroes,
•	F is the average number of abilities per hero (assumed to be 5 in this case).

As shown in the table above, the complexity grows rapidly as more heroes are added

You made up a formula and called it complexity? And then made a table? rofl. What is wrong with you.

Obviously the game becomes more “complex” as you call it, as there are more possible combinations of heroes and abilities. You don’t need to pretend like you are a teacher to make that very obvious statement.

But I’m not sure what your point is. That’s what makes the game fun.

Let’s pretend you actually have students that think a game with multiple heroes is too complex to play. Well, tell them to go play hello kittys adventure island. That seems to be more on pace with their intellect.

@Auxi-2690

I come from an economics background, where we have a much stricter definition of a player base. I’d be happy to share it here:
it’s about how many players are so satisfied with the game that they actually show their appreciation by spending at least $30 per year. This amount is crucial to cover the costs for developers, infrastructure, and to generate a small return for investors. (These numbers are just examples.)

Well, in the real world, what we call a player base is, ALL the players that play your game. rofl.

[ISimp4MyWife-1210]

@Auxi-2690

Fewer (better NO) new heroes—focus on balancing the existing ones (perhaps at least no new heroes for the rest of this year).

@Auxi-2690

No new maps—just improve the existing ones.

these two changes would single handedly kill any momentum the game still has.

those are the only forms of content we get

[Ornery-11716]

@Auxi-2690

In short, they felt that OW2’s learning curve is so steep from the start that many players are discouraged right away. It could take months to get a decent handle on the game’s complexity.

Games like this appeal to me for this reason. I like slowly peeling back the layers over time as I play and continue learning more and more. If I could’ve learned everything there was to know in week or so, I likely still wouldn’t be playing.

[Apotzen-2146]

@Auxi-2690

Students: “The game is too complex, with too many heroes, each with their own unique skill set.”

Which is one reason out of many why I’m not keen on constantly adding new characters.

But the community disagrees I don’t mind the complexity, but I can definitely see how it can deter people from trying a game.

[Auxi-2690]

@Applesoup-1346

You made up a formula and called it complexity? And then made a table? rofl. What is wrong with you.

Obviously the game becomes more “complex” as you call it, as there are more possible combinations of heroes and abilities. You don’t need to pretend like you are a teacher to make that very obvious statement.

But I’m not sure what your point is. That’s what makes the game fun.

Let’s pretend you actually have students that think a game with multiple heroes is too complex to play. Well, tell them to go play hello kittys adventure island. That seems to be more on pace with their intellect.

There’s not much substance in your comment, aside from personal insults. If you want to contribute meaningfully to the discussion, it would be more helpful to focus on constructive points rather than resorting to name-calling. Let’s try to keep the conversation productive.

[hellosen-1327]

I don’t know what you’d expect, it’s literally bound to happen as the game gets more heroes.
The problem going forward is newer heroes are going to have a similar ability to an existing hero.

[Applesoup-1346]

@Auxi-2690

There’s not much substance in your comment, aside from personal insults. If you want to contribute meaningfully to the discussion, it would be more helpful to focus on constructive points rather than resorting to name-calling. Let’s try to keep the conversation productive

So you took nothing from it? Let me simplify it for you.

If you think this game is too complex, or your “students” think this game is too complex, GO PLAY A LESS “COMPLEX” GAME. There are plenty of them out there.

Go play checkers instead of chess.

But, making a post suggesting that we make chess all pawns, instead of having multiple different pieces, is a silly suggestion, and pretty pointless.

[Auxi-2690]

@Applesoup-1346

Go play checkers instead of chess.

If you find it difficult to manage your frustration, consider seeking help or finding healthier ways to cope.

[Applesoup-1346]

@Auxi-2690

@Applesoup-1346

Go play checkers instead of chess.

If you find it difficult to manage your frustration, consider seeking help or finding healthier ways to cope

Why do you think I’m frustrated? lol.

I’m sorry that I disagree with you. I guess that means I am frustrated? What are you talking about lol.

Take my advice and go play a less “complex” game, if you think this is a difficult one.

[Auxi-2690]

@Applesoup-1346

Why do you think I’m frustrated? lol.

I’m sorry that I disagree with you. I guess that means I am frustrated? What are you talking about lol.

Someone who insults others and ridicules everything often exhibits behaviors that can indicate deeper psychological issues or insecurities. Several underlying factors might explain why people behave this way:

	1.	Insecurity and Low Self-Esteem: People often insult others to deflect attention from their own insecurities. By putting others down, they attempt to make themselves feel superior or better.
	2.	Lack of Emotional Maturity: Those who mock or insult others frequently demonstrate a lack of emotional intelligence and maturity. They struggle to handle conflicts or disagreements constructively.
	3.	Need for Control: By belittling others, some individuals try to gain control over a situation or conversation. They may feel threatened or insecure and use insults to dominate the interaction.
	4.	Projection of Personal Issues: People often project their own inner conflicts, fears, or weaknesses onto others. Ridiculing or insulting others can be a way to vent their own negative emotions.
	5.	Lack of Empathy: Individuals who frequently behave dismissively often lack the ability to empathize with others and understand their feelings. They might lack empathy and awareness, leading to a disregard for others’ emotions.

Psychoanalysis is one of my hobbies … Don’t worry. I’m ending this now. I won’t reply to you anymore. Live long and in peace!

[Applesoup-1346]

@Auxi-2690

Don’t worry. I’m ending this now. I won’t reply to you anymore. Live long and in peace!

Rather than responding to my post you said that? rofl.

Alright man, well have a great day! Or night, or afternoon

I’m glad you are in therapy though, lol.

[Jígglypuff-1732]

This was very good

Some time ago there was a paper that came out from Blizzard saying that the average player had to invest around 48hs in gameplay, for at least, understanding the funcionality of every character’s abilities

And yeah, the average game for the average player, usually ends in less than 48hs xD

But the problematic goes beyond Overwatch

League of Legends has more than 160 heroes…

But there’s also the timing and rythm from the industry itself. From production to consumers

The trend is to keep updates on content for players and social media.
So every game can only keep growing; what makes it much harder for new players to start from scratch

Fortnite is a monstrosity. I see companies like Meta pouring money on virtual worlds… and Epic has already done it xD

But somehow, Fortnite made everyone to actually believe that it is a fun casual game, when in reality, its a technology and human benchmark

Not only it is far more complex than any other mainstream videogame, mechanically, but the amount of content that has been added over the years, is just crazy

[ÅšträĴÙVÅ69-1655]

Its an interesting discussion that you are having with your students. I wish i took that class!

When i first played OW1 in 2019, i was pretty Overwhelmed by all the heroes. I played mostly Tank and Support and I quickly learned how to play D.Va and Mercy. Took some time but i did learn their gameplay quite quickly. However, I had lots of experience playing First-Person Shooters as my original favorite game is Halo. From Halo, I learned all about special abilities and using special weapons, which transferred nicely into Overwatch.

The issue with OW2 is there is not a really good tutorial. I mean there are “Training” modes but I feel like they should be required to at least go thru once to understand the complex mechanics of OW2. Theres a lack of cohesiveness with Training and how it applies to the game, except for Practice Vs. AI, which is the closest you can get.

I really think Skirmish should be a mode in Training instead of only being an option for being in queue for a match game. When I first started playing OW, Skirmish was my favorite mode to practice learning heroes with. There definitely needs to be more emphasis on learning the basics of OW2.

[Jígglypuff-1732]

@ÅšträĴÙVÅ69-1655

I mean there are “Training” modes but I feel like they should be required to at least go thru once to understand the complex mechanics of OW2

I think they are trying to do that with Hero Mastery, but people usually take it as another game mode

[ÅšträĴÙVÅ69-1655]

True.

I think it would be nice if new players could only play one of these modes, either Tutorial, Vs. AI or Hero Mastery, when they first start OW for the first time. Then afterwords, they could play online matches.

[Jígglypuff-1732]

Just imagine many just want to win the 50games from QuickPlay, and go right to Comp xD