Orisa is starting to be good again

General Discussion
41

Some people just want to watch the world burn. D.Va is the best!

If 6v6 comes back, can we just delete every tank except D.Va and Reinhardt? They make a good pair.

1 Like
42

IMO Mauga has more depth and strategy than Zarya. Zarya would have the same reputation as Mauga if she was an OW2 hero.

3 Likes
43

Well, let me ask you this then.

Would heroes be balanced differently between

  • Option A: Ordering hero pickrates by how fun/fair they are to play as/with/against
  • Option B: Keeping heroes within a 48% to 55% range winrate

And if there’s a difference. Why does that matter for option B? In an end-results kind way, and not a “sticking to the rules” kind of way.

44

Depends on the Zarya player honestly. Zarya’s who bubble teammates to enable plays are far more interesting than those who double bubble down main while running at you in a straight line and somehow still getting value because nobody shoots at them.

1 Like
45

Instructions unclear

Reinhardt and Dva deleted

Mauga Orisa prevails :point_up_2:

2 Likes
46

You are trying to go for the two piece and a soda here…

Bring back 6v6 so I can solo shatter you into Lumin’s Dva bomb, please and thank you.

2 Likes
47

Why not both? I don’t think any hero should be massively overpowered or underpowered so using Option B is good. But keeping heroes who are frustrating lower on that range and heroes that are more interesting higher on that range is good, so A too.

Like use a bit of both IMO. It has to be fun. It has to be fun for the majority. But all heroes need to have a place in the game. If the hero is too frustrating to be viable then they need a rework to remove the frustration point.

1 Like
48

Tank players stop playing the game because all 10-12 Orisa & Mauga mains are all that is left of the tank playerbase. Meanwhile the tens of millions of Rein and D.Va mains take their ball and go home.

1 Like
49

Well, even if they are doing both.

Which one should take precedence.
When push comes to shove.

  • Option A: Ordering hero pickrates by how fun/fair they are to play as/with/against
  • Option B: Keeping heroes within a 48% to 55% range winrate

Because if the #1 priority option is B.
I think that’s a problem.

And with early OW2 balancing on Sojourn, it really felt like it was B.

50

Shatter Bomb was the best combo in the game. Nobody can change my mind about that.

1 Like
51

Neither. I think both should be hard rules. If a hero is so bad that you have to break rule B to accomplish rule A then that hero needs a rework.

1 Like
52

That’s fair. Eventually.

But what do you do with the hero in the meantime?

If there option for both doesn’t currently exist, and would need a rework to exist.

Do you leave them at a higher pickrate than their fun/fairness would imply, because their winrate number is low?

I e. Sojourn through the first half of OW2 development

53

D.va meta is more favorable because she has a high skill ceiling and bad D.va players are easy to shut down. Orisa can be played by literally anyone however since the game plan is pretty much have her afk on objective and dump her with heals.

1 Like
54

It’s fair to put a problematic hero on ice for a period of time. But it can’t be too long. Preferably only 1 season, 2 at most. The amount of time they’ve spent reworking some heroes is just too long.

Sojourn might be a bad example because ultimately they came up with a solution that was not really a rework. Sombra right now might be a better example. I think that putting her into a bad balance state for a season with a communicated plan to rework her would be ok. What wouldn’t be fair to Sombra mains is just nerfing her without any plans to fix her or failing to communicate those plans.

55

All good then.

Tbh, nothing meant by the slight aggro.

I’ve just gotten the feeling over the years that Widow and Hanzo pickrate isn’t tied to the “Ordering hero pickrates by how fun/fair they are to play as/with/against”.

Much less the Tom Cadwell or Robin Walker definition of Counterplay.

  • https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2477
  • https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:JAlbor/GDC_2013:_Teamplay_and_Counterplay_in_League_of_Legends

Which I’m interpreting as:

“After you make your Choice, your Opponent should have the capability, to respond with their Choice, which includes the awareness that a Choice exists, and enough time to understand and react with their Choice”.

Like that’s a violation of expectations on an emotional level, so you’d expect an “emotional fix”.

As is the case in literally every other modern PVP FPS game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/12wi53y/hottake_snipers_are_strangling_playerbase_growth/

Oh and a fun way to think of “what is good counterplay”, is basically the difference between a “fair fight” and a “sucker punch”.

1 Like
56

And yeah incidentally,
I think these two changes would go a long way towards lowering how frustrating those heroes are:

Widowmaker

Widow’s Curse

  • All incoming healing reduced by 50%.
    • Including outside healing, regeneration, and healthpacks.

Hanzo

StormBow

  • Headshot modifier reduced to 1.5x beyond 40m range
    StormArrows
  • Headshot modifier reduced to 1.5x beyond 40m range

Then add some filler buffs for tierlisting purposes

Because the most frustrating part about Widow, is heal pocketed Widows. (Also it’s kind of an abomination that she was given regen, so this partially cancels that out)

And the most frustrating part of Hanzo are those long range “other side of the map” feeling oneshots.

And I’ll reiterate, you can then do some generic stats buffs to compensate. This isn’t a Tierlisting issue.

But for real, it’s difficult to get people to differentiate between “Feels Bad to play Against” and “Overpowered on the Tierlist”.

Like ridiculously hard even with high ELO players.
It’s some weird cognitive dissonance thing, where they try to turn all game design terms into Tierlisting.

57

It is odd that they keep doing this.

They buff her even slightly, she starts creeping up and making the game feel insufferable including at the highest ranks, then they nerf.

Like, just leave her down there, please.

58

Here’s a fun thought.

If in theory,

  • Context: All Roles were mostly balanced.

And then

  • They doubled the health on Tanks.

Would that be a:

  • Option A. Balance Issue
  • Option B. Qualitative Counterplay Issue.

Since I’d say, that’s a Qualitative Counterplay Issue, and not a Balance Issue.

  • I.e. “This is too frustrating to play against”

And not

  • “Making sure an individual player has enough build variety”
59

You leave my horse alone! :cry:

60

Sure buddy, while i play scrims with santa.

I don’t bother much with comp because of the horrible matchmaker. I play scrims, as that’s where i have the most fun.

It does matter because i’m right. You being in denial doesn’t change the facts.

Defunded? The pro scene is more than well funded and quite rellevant. Not sure what planet you’re living on, but here on earth the pro scene is doing well, and OWCS made it easier for players who’s been under the radar during OWL to take center stage, too.

Orisa is played almost 90% of the time in OWSC and in comp now.

Also

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMONxE-0nNA]