Nerf Rein right now

[Nox-12979]

@Fragehardt-1291

Yes it does. The meta always eventually mirrors what the pro scene is doing. It takes the ladder a little while to catch up to what the pros are doing.

No it doesn’t.

Meta is only played in Master and GM. At best the rest of the ranks will be slightly influenced by what happens in OWL as people who don’t have the skill try to emulate what they see and fail in various grades of spectacularity.

@Fragehardt-1291

and low ranks always do what they want.

It’s not just the low ranks. It’s everyone below masters. It’s well over 95% of the game’s population. The impact of any kind of “meta” is very overblown.

@Fragehardt-1291

They are opting for other main tanks even without the shatter nerf.

And those tanks are losing games vs. Rein/Zarya to a hilarious degree. 50% of the total tank pick-rate (which is zero-sum), and over 50% of the wins. They’re OP. By every single metric they are OP, and it’s entirely Rein’s fault. He enables all of this.

If you limit your status to just this past week, Rein is almost 40% of tank picks just by himself while zarya is another 25%, and their win rates are higher as well.

…and it’s all Rein. He has the higher pick-rate. He’s the one being used successfully with other heroes. He’s the one enabling everyone else.

@Fragehardt-1291

Jeff has literally stated multiple times that player perception is more important to pickrate than actual hero balance. Players think these are the best combination of heroes, so they pick those heroes (and flame others for not picking those heroes). Furthermore, the game does not exist in a vacuum, and sometimes a hero gets picked a lot due to inherent synergy with another hero that is strong.

He did. And it is. However, what Jeff was talking about was heroes with high pick rates and low win-rates. Heroes like McCree, who maintains a very, very healthy win-rate in spite of sucking out-loud sometimes.

When your win-rate and pick rates are both high, we’re no longer talking about player perception over reality. We’re just talking about reality.

@Fragehardt-1291

Also, if a main tank is just 1% more effective than the others (or at least people perceive that to be the case) that tank will get most of the play time. If a hero gets twice the pickrate of the next highest pick tank, that does not necessarily mean that they are twice as effective as that hero, or even that they are more effective at all.

Of course not. That’s why their win-rate is so important. It gives context.

@Fragehardt-1291

Glad you think my opinion doesn’t matter though.

I never said that. I said I’m automatically assuming bias. You’re backing up your points though which is very, very good.

@Fragehardt-1291

The meta is literally about to shift back toward a dive centric meta at the top end.

We’ll see. Until they substantially nerf rein, I don’t see his pick rates going anywhere anytime soon.

And, again, GM and Masters is less than 5% of the playerbase. The vast bulk of players play between gold and plat with Bronze and Silver being far more populous than Diamond and masters due to the “default” nature of bronze and silver receiving almost everyone who happens to be picking up the game for the first time (it’s easier to be bad at something than it is to be good at it).

Metas do exert some downward pressure, but it’s nowhere near as great as people think it is.

[Zergotto-2668]

@Nox-12979

Then there is no room for “main tanks”. Turn all tanks into off-tanks.

god i’m so glad you are not in charge of the balancing

[GrilledCheez-11520]

there is no room for main tanks. Turn all tanks into off tanks

then I suppose we can turn every Jungler in League into a Top Laner

[Nox-12979]

@Zergotto-2668

god i’m so glad you are not in charge of the balancing

To my never-ending horror, someone just like you probably is.

[Zergotto-2668]

@Nox-12979

To my never-ending horror, someone just like you probably is .

Kaplan is a plat rein main

[Rainbow-23650]

@Nox-12979

he’s so bad at securing kills once they’re down

Youre not 1vs1. Youre 6vs6. Learn to play with your team

[Lotto-21321]

@Qendel-1288

The next step would be to buff Sigma and Orisa so they aren’t hot steaming garbage.

Thats the one step they should make sure NOT to do. not unless they buff all other tanks as well. otherwise we are going straight back to double barrier meta.
they really are not that weak, they are just weaker than rein (same way all other tanks are weaker than rein). the only reason you dont see many orisa sigma is because they are used for the same thing as rein, but rein is better at it. that doesnt mean orisa sigma are weak it just means rein does what they do but he does it better.

[Lotto-21321]

@Nox-12979

Meta is only played in Master and GM. At best the rest of the ranks will be slightly influenced by what happens in OWL as people who don’t have the skill try to emulate what they see and fail in various grades of spectacularity.

This is really not true, at all.
Meta is played at all levels as long as the meta is easy to play, but its played only at higher levels if its hard.
double barrier meta was supereasy to play and super strong. every single game at plat/diamond level was nothing but double barrier.
current meta with rein zarya is the same thing, you risk getting reported if you dont go meta.

with goats it was different though, cause unlike double barrier and rein/zarya, goats was actually hard to pull off. dive was same thing, too hard to pull off for most people.
but when the meta consists of easy to play characters or easy combinations of characters it will reach far lower ranks than master.

if i played 10 games during double barrier meta i would probable be playing against double barrier in at least 9 out of 10 games, both when i team up with friends to play at plat level or if i play solo in diamond. the idea that meta does not exist under master is laughable after seeing how strong metas can become at lower ranks, if the meta is just easy enough to play.

[UGotBenched-1849]

He’s not immune. I play plenty of rein. There’s plenty of characters…bastion, sombra, pharah, Echo, Doomfist, Ashe, McCree, soldier that can take down his shield with ease.

[Nox-12979]

@Rainbow-23650

Youre not 1vs1. Youre 6vs6. Learn to play with your team

You’re 6v6. However, once the barrier goes down 'rat effectively makes his team 5v6 since he cannot cinch kills effectively at range (can he cannot get close with a barrier up because Rein’s barrier enables hitscan, which counter Junkrat).

@Lotto-21321

This is really not true, at all.
Meta is played at all levels as long as the meta is easy to play, but its played only at higher levels if its hard.

It is true. The devs have stated as much multiple times.

What you see below masters are elements of whatever the dominant meta is. Teams will run some of a meta, but very rarely run all of it.

…GOATS was an exception here because it was so stupid-easy to run. This is also why the devs scorched-earth the game to get rid of GOATS with 2-2-2. When they started seeing full-GOATS impact Bronze…

[Rainbow-23650]

I guess you have to work on your aim, cause i can secure alot of kills as the spam master

[Nox-12979]

I’ve been tracking my games. Out of my last 40 (played a lot over the weekend and friday night) I had 17 where my team didn’t have a rein, and the other team did.

Every. Single. One. was a loss.

Every one.

The only time not having a rein didn’t mean my team auto-lost was when the other team also did not have a rein.

…that happened 3 times.

Every time my team had a rein and the enemy team did not, we won.

Every. Single. Time.

Rein is the problem.