I’m not saying that characters shouldn’t have the ability to 1 shot. But rather it should be slower to 1 shot or require more skill to play 1 shot characters. In GM lobbies, it is always snipers (widow, ashe, & good souj) that rule the game. Healers cannot fulfill their main job duties since they cannot heal insta kills, and the fight goes by too swiftly due to 1 shots. So that sniping/1 shotting isnt the most common meta in high lobbies, there should be acts taken to reduce their effectiveness. For instance, Widow’s HP should be dropped to her normal OW1 health at 175. In addition to this, her charge to be able to 1 shot should take slightly longer (so she’s not clipping the whole team across the map in the span of 3 seconds). Ashe, for example could deal less dmg with her dynamite. These changes would still give characters the ability to 1 shot, but reduce how powerful & influential they are in higher elos. At the end of the day, characters should have the ability to 1 shot, but it shouldn’t be something that strongly & consistently rules over the majority of gm games.
I feel like either widow should be much lower hp like the 175 she was or even 150 now that here’s 1 tank. Sojourns damage needs to be nerfed again because it can still 1 shot with pocket. And hanzo I have no issues with bc he’s awful and no one plays him. As a non hitscan player in gm the games are so awful and repetitive it genuinely makes me miss double shield pocket 76 in ow1 bc at least I wouldn’t consistent have to hide 24/7 so I don’t get 1 shot by a widow or sojourn. Also on that even tho it’s tangents it’s so annoying taht dive heroes are so bad, they incentivize players to counter pick hitscan to kill a good widow or sojourn instead of how It should be to incentivize choosing genji or Winston or whatever simply because most the dive heroes, except tracer, are just way under tuned. But yea in short the snipers hard way too repetitive for comp to be fun, even more so on console since 80% of them xim
take away 1 shot from hanzo or widow. tell me honestly if you’d ever play them.
Widow yes, hanzo no because he’s already awful enough as is. Doing 120 is more than enough to get kills. And crits can be nerfed to just shy of 1 shot say 190 and that’s again more than enough to get value. If u think comparatively to other heroes Winston literally does 60 dmg/sec flat and they think that’s ok so doing 120 per shot I’d say is more than enough
but you should also include all aspects.
Widow has a cadence of 1.4 seconds, which means with bodyshots it’s already at 85 dmg/sec, which is not that far from 60.
Furthermore, one is a single shot that can easily be missed while the other has a short range but is autoaim. Additionally, Widow’s shot can be blocked by shields or reflected by Genji, while Winston’s Tesla cannot. You are less able to defend yourself against Winston than Widow when he has you in range. More dangerous than Widow for supports in a good Winston.
Winston is a counter to Widow for a reason.
Have u played against Winston? He is literally the worst hero in the game by far. Not a single t500 tank even has him played for more than an hr lol. If they’re removing hogs 1 shot combo logically widow shouldn’t be able to either especially when it’s further range and for most gm’s easier to hit. Idk ur rank but if u play in gm/t500 you’ll notice how oppressive widow is. Either her health should be nerfed to make her much easier to dive (since atm a pocketed widow is near unkillable even on tracer or genji and especially Winston) or nerd her 1 shot
Widow being 175HP isn’t going to help. She can still kill anyone before they can kill her unless you flank (which requires knowing where she is) or have a widow yourself. Same with Hanzo. Hanzo spams down a hallway or a corner and gets a kill basically for free. Someone just walks into his shot… no skill required.
No single ability or combo of abilities should lead to an instant death or one that can’t be healed through. We have 1 tank now, the off tank role is gone, so the 1shot sniper role needs to go as well. People need to move on, it ruins the game. It needs to be a team game, with working together, combo’ing abilities, gaining positioning, planning ults and counter ults… all those things make this game fun and unique. Every FPS shooter on the planet has 1 shots and no one goes and plays those games because of that boring style of play. It’s fun for a week or two but that’s it.
and why do players like Emongg, Flats, Bogur rank Winston in B tier (before the Roadhog nerfs) and now with Roadhog nerfed Winston has logically got higher. Merto now has Winston in A tier. Winston is strong in OW2, the problem is unfortunately the whole counterpicking with the 30% ult charge passive.
There are also tanks like hammond or other heroes like Sombra that are much weaker.
What? one hero is a tank with 700 HP and very good sustainabiliy while the other is a fragile DPS.
Flats had previously described why the oneshot of Roadhog and Soujorn are problematic, but widows is ok. “Survivability with a Oneshot” Roadhog has 700 HP, selfhealing and dmg Reduction, Sojourn is very mobile, her slide is a survivability tool. It’s on a CD of just 7 seconds and is primarily intended for getting in and out quickly. Widow doesn’t have that luxury. Grapple is primarily to be seen as a positioning tool, as it is now mainly used to get onto the high ground or to take a jumpshot. the long CD makes you vulnerable if you misuse it.
relevant part is from ~10:12 - 12:16
Hook was also a combo that someone with 0 hours on Roadhog could consistently do without actually being good with the hero. Far easier than consistently hitting headshots with Widow.
It’s not necessarily easier for GMs to hit. The opponent moves much better than a gold player, ADcrouch spamm says hello. Furthermore, these players put a lot of time into the game and also optimize themselves. There are also enormous differences in terms of aim even in the GM. Even though Flats is a T500 tank he doesn’t even come close to having the aim of a dedicated hitscan/sniper player like Kephrii, Kenzo, Ans etc. Many underestimate the effort involved in having such good aim as these players.
I’m not a GM myself, which I never claimed to be. But I was definitely dominated by Master Widows, I won against them through Teamdiff and also have matches where I dominate as a Widow where i even was accused of cheating. But I also know what it’s like to be constantly flanked and not being able to play Widow because the opposing team is countering and focusing me. I know both sides of the medal.
But you don’t exactly sound like GM either, otherwise you would rather agree with real t500/gm.
Why should it be easy to win a 1v2? If you are alone you should lose it in most cases. Period.
Overwatch is still a team game. When Mercy helps her widow, that’s normal team play.
Won’t happen, just like Sojourn’s Railgun doesn’t keep losing dmg. Alec Dawson touched on that in the stream that the railgun is part of Sojourn’s identity, and the oneshot is even more part of Widow’s. But he said that a 175 HP nerf might come.
Or you should adapt. Others enjoy it or have no problem with it even though they don’t play Snipers.
It’s a team game, but countering Widow proves that many don’t want to play as a team. Many complain that they cannot, or only with difficulty, defeat a widow because the widow has support from her team.
And fighting a Widow as a team is also part of it. It even brings some variety, since she is not based on a number of abilities and requires other tactics, you have to adapt. If the opponent has a tracer, you as a support are also more attentive and try to stay closer to your team to get protection. And if the opponent has a Pharah or Echo, the DPS will immediately be prompted to use Hitscan.
And why are such games with a “boring play style” so successful? COD, CS:GO, Rainbow, Valorant etc. Games where oneshots are much more common?
only as a comparison. Overwatch 2 currently has 175k concurrent players, Valorant 577k, CS:GO 894k
Source for OW2: https://activeplayer.io/overwatch-2/
on Twitch a similar picture: CS:GO 201k, Valorant 134k and Overwatch 2 at 29k
I personally don’t like these games either, but not because of the oneshots, but because in a round the entire aciton is packed in a few seconds out of 3-5 min, there are no respawns (in many of them), they slower paced than overwatch thanks to a low TTk and the movement doesn’t feel that good like in Overwatch because there is movement acceleration in these games. Also, aiming in these games is actually easier because of this movement acceleration. AD spam is virtually non-existent in these games.
I do not play COD, CS:Go, Rainbow, Volarant, or any other game you mention, but they all allow you to have the same kill potential (everybody on the team can kill in one shot, everybody has a counter play opportunity). It’s a 5v5 game, dying in ways that piss you off only serve to make you leave. A support cannot fight a widow at range nor swap to fight a widow at range. It’s not fun or entertaining way to die. No one minded in a 6v6 scenario because an off tank or a shield could mitigate an angle. We do not have that anymore. 1shots have to go.
If you want to push your point, why not remove tanks and healers since all the games you mention do not have that?
Theoretically yes, practically no. A sniper often only needs a bodyshot to be deadly, pistols and regular rifles can only oneshot with headshots (or not at all) and shotguns have little effective range but can oneshot very effectively in close quarters combat. And you can’t just switch heroes or your weapon loadout during a round.
most are 5v5 as well and dying in these games tends to be even more frustrating and consequential. but games like Rainbow tilts me less than Overwatch. You have a chance because the matchmaking actually works and is also fair.
And do you think I have fun playing Widow when I keep getting eliminated by the enemy Lucio and I hardly stand a chance thanks to his speed and mobility? Or Ball, which is a de facto hard counter to Widow. (One of the few things I like about 5v5 is that you hardly see the ball) I have less trouble with D.Va or Winston as I have at least a sliver of a chance.
Question: Does a support that has the job of supporting and healing their team have to be able to consistently fight a widow at range? shouldn’t that be the job of the DPS and tanks?
you and many others get so caught up in contradictions: you want to emphasize the team aspect, but when you need the help of teammates you don’t like it and want to take care of the problem yourself. What do you want now? Team play or solo play?
There are also possibilities, as already mentioned Lucio, Ana can work, but with a high risk, Mercys with good movement are damn difficult to hit and with Valk Mercy is also very dangerous if she goes Battle Mercy, Zen can also eliminate a Widow with a volley (also a high risk if you can’t surprise her) and last but not least Kiriko. Very difficult to hit, especially headshot. Suzu can be quite annoying and Widow is very easy to headshot for Kiriko.
um, that’s not my point. I said I don’t like these games myself. In fact, Overwatch was my very first FPS and the only one I actually play (/played, since the matchmaker only makes one-sided games. I played the last normal match over two/three weeks ago, although widow is said to be in such a good spot.)
I’ve been playing OW1 since beta. Played it casually, then competitively (ladder), then joined a team and competed in Open Division, and later in other tournaments that included OWL players (even beat an OWL team). This game has the potential to provide an experience beyond mechanics. There needs to be a balance of mechanics and team work. At the moment, in 5v5, Widow is 100% ONLY mechanics… there is no team work. You literally have to have another Widow just so the enemy Widow spends half a second looking around and doesn’t just freely peek. Having a single tank dive is a waste of a resource or basically impossible because the sight lines are too long.
“you and many others get so caught up in contradictions: you want to emphasize the team aspect, but when you need the help of teammates you don’t like it and want to take care of the problem yourself. What do you want now? Team play or solo play?”
There are no contradictions… you peek you die with a good widow. You’re basically stating, the tactic is to hide until a Lucio runs behind enemy lines solo and beats a widow… The sight lines of the maps are wayyyyyyy too long to get that value. And that’s not a team game mechanic. That again is a single player 1v1’ing which is an issue. You cannot out heal a 1shot… you can only avoid or block. That is not healthy.
Either we go back to 6v6, have 5v5 but all tanks have a shield (to block a 1shot), or you fix the 1shot power creep.
I have no idea what you’re trying to prove with that. especially if you have an open profile where your current rank can be seen.
- Is that factually wrong, Yes Widow needs good aim, but good gamesense, map knowledge and positioning are also part of it.
- where is the problem of having heroes who can build on mechanical skills.
That’s what’s special about Overwatch, as it tries to appeal to all players, even those who haven’t played FPS before.
What’s wrong with also implementing classic classes from FPS.
Widow is actually quite tame and weak compared to other snipers. She was the third hero ever, first Tracer, then Reaper, and finally Widow. early on in development you could even be on any rooftop imaginable and shoot at your opponents. (still way before alpha)
Widow was actually why I started overwatch in 2016, but I only started playing it in mid-2019 and it’s more or less the only reason I’m still interested in overwatch. PvE will be very critical for me as it’s more my style of play.
Maybe I have a different mind set because I actually find it quite fun to work with hiding and stealth like this, it’s a change from the normal play of overwatch.
I’ll give you that point, some maps could use a few adjustments, but there are also maps where widow doesn’t work at all.
Why not? In order not to run into Widow’s Crosshair, you have to use your own head a bit, put yourself in the Widow’s place, where she could be. Logically, the higher you get, the more difficult it becomes, because that’s where Widows start to be unpredictable, never peaking the same spot twice and even go for flanks and don’t shy away from close combat either.
No it is not. there is something like target priority. What is the danger for me and my team, what is the problem, why we don’t defeat the opponent. I communicate with my fellow players where which players are. Pings are also a powerful tool, which promotes teamplay but is not exploited by many.
The hero isn’t what matters, it’s how the player plays him.
What is the difference between a tracer who terrorizes the enemy backline all the time and a widow who aims at that backline?
most DPS are supposed to be effective in eliminating the opponent.
Even without a widow, players die quickly in OW2. It doesn’t matter if it was the Tracer, the Genij, the Bastion or the Widow that sent you to the spawn in a split second. death is death And healing in the game is so damn strong that oneshots are sometimes necessary for anything to die at all. What happens when you have too much sustain has been seen wonderfully in GOATs and Double Shield. Or currently in Open Queue and the Arcade where it’s just tanks and support that’s being played.
I find it interesting that you always go for shields, although there are plenty of opportunities to work without shields, but they need real teamwork or the right skills, which is what you actually want.
We definitely have powercreep, but not really with oneshots (exept Sojourn), and certainly not with Widow. With each new hero, there is more and more powercreep. Especially with tanks and support but also DPS. The thing about Widow though is that she’s in one of her weaker states ever. From 2018 until the end of Overwatch, widow almost exclusively got nerfs (two minimal buffs that didn’t really change anything in the game and can also be declared as reverts)
My profile is open.
I don’t understand why you are not getting this.
A hero existing and killing another player as soon as they peak their head is NOT a team game mechanic. It makes 8-9 players in the match absolutely hate the match. The only people that enjoy it are the people that play that specific hero. You cannot be saved by a tank or healer. There is no counter play. You are just dead. Good positioning, bad positioning, it doesn’t matter, you’re dead.
Team play is, you make a move, your team supports you. They have time to act and react. There is a reason every single major voice on YouTube and Twitch are trying to explain this. I’ve had 5 different friends quit the game over 1shots. I am also on the verge of quitting myself. I almost never played this game because I called the minute they announced 5v5 and removed off tank. The counter play to snipers is a second tank.
Let me explain this better. Your main tank has a shield blocking the main sight line. Widow can’t pick anyone unless they are now out of position. Widow is forced to do jump shots or off angles. The second tank shields those off angles or takes that space. Orisa pulls you in the air, your Sigma shields the sight line to prevent Widow shot or Roadhog hook. This is exactly what team play and counter play is.
In OW2, you cannot shield an off angle. Your main tank usually doesn’t even have a shield to block the main sight lines. What are your choices? You either play Widow vs Widow, Roadhog vs Roadhog, or someone tries to flank and pray that they win the solo 1v1 fight. This is NOT team play, this is NOT counter play.
You and everyone advocating for this game play style is killing the game slowly but surely. It should be a team of resources being used to confirm a kill or stop a kill. Not a single person picking people off across the map before they can even react.
That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo
Let’s see that hot vod of you dominating every widow as a support.
That’s funny… Because every high elo player I know can’t stress the importance of mechanics enough.
Its not the foundation but it is pertinent to all roles.
Now you’re strawmanning. I said beyond mechanics… not without. Meaning, mechanics are important, but mechanics alone are not enough.
Implying that Widow is mechanics only displays a fundamental misunderstanding of her gameplay.
Sure… If you’re smurfing you can kill any/everybody… But in high elo, Widow is really best at closing off lanes.
The fact that people aren’t mindful of her positioning is a failure on their part.
Widow doesn’t need great fundamentals since there is nothing blocking their sight line. Widow did need it in OW1, but not in OW2. It’s as simple as, stand as far back as possible, watch a main angle/choke. One person walks out without seeing the widow, instant team fight won. Widow, Hanzo, Sojourn, Roadhog, etc… need to be reworked in a way the enables team play and counter play. I would argue Roadhog has more counter play than widow. At least you have a millisecond to bubble, block, sleep, knockback, etc… There is nothing you can do about widow except revive if she lands her shots.
Lol… Hanzo is one of the worst heroes in the game. And his ult is borderline the worst of all the DPS roster.