Mythbusting : Role Queue Killed the Game

[Poytheon-1466]

@Megadodo-11847

@Poytheon-1466

For clarification, there is no “training wheels” version of the game

actually, there is, and I have already explained what it is and why

Where is this “training wheels” version of the game? I don’t see any where to queue for it, and I don’t see any other separate version of Overwatch.

@Megadodo-11847

actually, that claim is directly supported by one or more other statements in this very thread, and similar statements in many other threads

No valid data has been presented, therefore it is still an unverified and unsupported claim.

@Socrates-11282

My point is not that it isn’t selfish. My point is that they aren’t playing with the intent to harm the team, which is what the part “at the expense” implies.

1. Intent is almost impossible to prove one way or the other. You don’t know this. Furthermore, if they are knowingly harming their team and not trying to fix it, that is intent to harm the team.
2. At the expense of the team does not always mean they have bad intent. It can be accidental or unintentional, such as someone in open queue who only plays 2 heroes effectively being forced onto another hero because 2 players have already picked their heroes first. (a con of open queue) In that scenario, they are unwillingly & accidentally playing at the expense of the team, though that’s not really their fault, it’s open queues.

@Socrates-11282

Most people play what they want simply because they want to.

Which is selfish if it’s at the expense of the team.

@Socrates-11282

Or they could be viewing their choice as the best option which is more than likely better than what you thinks since they know themselves better than you do.

There are objective “best options”. If for example a player is a really good hitscan player and the enemy team has Pharah/Echo/Mercy and is absolutely rolling their team unchecked because their team has no one else good at hitscan & that player refuses to play hitscan anyways because they want to play Symmetra, that player is being selfish and putting their wants above the teams needs.

@Socrates-11282

And it is also that you are complaining about selfish people and then being selfish yourself by saying they should pick what you designate to be the correct choice.

Here’s where you’re wrong, it’s not about what I or anyone wants, it’s about the objective truth of what the best options are based on the circumstances of the match. While you’re talking about subjective feelings I’m talking about objective facts. Matchups are not based on feelings.

@Socrates-11282

And who are you to decide what the team needs?

Since when have I said that I get to decide?

@Socrates-11282

As I said, you cannot reasonably determine what is the end-all-be-all optimal choice. You are only able to determine what you think is the best option and then declare it to be what the team “needs” to win when in actuality it’s just what you want because you think it’s the best option.

I’ve never claimed to know what is the end all be all optimal choice, the circumstances of the match decide that. It’s game knowledge.

@Socrates-11282

No, it doesn’t, because player competency is not universal. Take an example of a one-trick. Say they have spent all their time on Junkrat and only Junkrat. The enemy has a Pharah and you are losing. You might think at face value the Junkrat switching would increase your chances of winning, but they have never played anyone other than Junkrat and so there’s a good chance the opposite is true.

If there’s a Junkrat one trick on the team I don’t expect them to swap heroes to deal with Pharah, all they can do is try their best as Junkrat. However, if they do competently play hitscan and can better deal with a Pharah then they are playing selfishly by staying on Junkrat.

@Megadodo-11847

there is no such thing as soft throwing

Where is your proof of this?

@Megadodo-11847

not at all

no one is ever forced to throw

it is a personal choice - an unfortunate one - a rule-violating one

Incorrect.

If there’s a Junkrat one trick and someone else picks Junkrat and they’re forced to play another hero they have absolutely no experience with & feed as a result, they’re soft throwing, even if it’s not their fault or choice.

@Megadodo-11847

I know of no aspect(s) of role-less queue mode that can reasonably be described as a “clown show”.

I’ll list a few reasons

1. Forced to race to pick who you want to play against 5 teammates
2. Forced players to play heroes/roles they didn’t want to play on a regular basis
3. Forced players to soft throw by making them play heroes they weren’t experienced with
4. Often created team comps that made no sense and had no synergy because of reasons 1-3
5. Teams almost always had 3+ DPS either from the start or at some point throughout the match
6. Often created a lot of toxicity because of reasons 1-5

@Megadodo-11847

the other player in your role in 222 can also pick the character you wish to play

Difference being you’re competing against one player, not 5.

@Megadodo-11847

no one was or is ever forced to play any given character they didnt wish to play in roleless queue mode

ever

one always has the choice of any available character

Incorrect.

In open queue if a player who only plays Junkrat & Pharah wasn’t able to pick either of those heroes before their 5 teammates did, they were forced to play a different character they didn’t want to play. Unfortunately in open queue multiple characters quickly became unavailable for players because of 6 players scrambling to instalock the same pool of heroes.

@Megadodo-11847

again, there is no such thing as "soft throwing, there is only throwing, and what has been described here isnt throwing at all

You are incorrect. Please provide proof that there is no such thing as soft throwing

@Megadodo-11847

also, as I stated earlier, no one is forced in role-less queue mode to play characters one doesnt wish to play. One has the choice of any available character at all times

Also incorrect. Players were in fact forced to play characters they didn’t want to play because their 5 teammates could pick them before they could.

@Megadodo-11847

any team comp can win a game.

any

Sure, but the exception is not the rule. There are team comps that are far more likely to win games compared to others, this is statistically true.

@Megadodo-11847

there are however players who choose to not try to work with what there team is

Yes, unfortunately many players selfishly pick what they want to play regardless of what the team needs.

@Megadodo-11847

@Poytheon-1466

5. Teams almost always had 3+ DPS either from the start or at some point throughout the match

I play role-less queue matches almost exclusively given how horrendously bad 222 is in my eyes. I see 4 or more DPS in perhaps one in every twelve games. so it does happen.

I said 3+ DPS, and that happened & happens in far more than one in twelve games. It’s a near constant occurrence to either start with or end up with 3+ DPS at some point throughout the match.

@Megadodo-11847

@Poytheon-1466

6. Often created a lot of toxicity because of reasons 1-5

a huge amount of toxicity is unfortunately present in all games modes

it is a gross misrepresentation to state that this toxicity only is present in one mode

The reasons given are exclusive to open queue.

@Megadodo-11847

structure was never and is never needed to play this game

To play the game? Of course not. But structure is in fact needed to give your team the best chance of winning the game. That’s what’s being talked about here.