My Single Issue with "Private Profiles"


#66

I understand where you are coming from. If you see someone with a 20% win rate on Widowmaker, clearly you would not want them to play Widowmaker. I wouldn’t either. However, I do differing views on this.

  1. People are allowed to not switch. Even if all other 5 people are telling you to switch, you still do not have to switch. Unless the FBI comes and knocks down your door because you didn’t switch off of Mei who you apparently suck with, you simply do not have to and have complete control over the situation. With this in mind, I am questioning the original idea to have profiles public in the first place. Whether people like it or not, everyone has complete control over what heroes they play. What will looking at someone’s profile do? Sure, you could ask them to switch, and there may be a chance that they do. However, people’s egos are EXTREMELY fragile, and if you asked based on their 20%, they are clearly going to rebel. It doesn’t matter if it’s only constructive criticism, people don’t care. They are easily offended and are insecure about their skill. I am one of these people. I can hide it, sure, but I have great difficulty taking any sort of criticism and have to try very hard to emotionally support myself when it comes to this. It hurts so many people way more than it should. Before anyone says “well, that’s their problem.” Well, you’re right. It is. But what can you do about it? Do you think just telling them to suck it up is going to fix their insecurity issues? No, that’s what therapy is for. In Overwatch, there are so many players from so many different places, and you cannot control them in any way. This isn’t an opinion, it’s fact. You cannot tell other players what to do. No matter how much you may pray to your deity of preference, you can’t. This doesn’t mean of course that you can’t make a suggestion. That’s completely in your power to do so. But they have the power to accept it or deny it.

  2. Seeing the 20% Widowmaker could actually be detrimental to your team. Here’s why.

Let’s say I insta-lock Mei. You can’t see my profile. I don’t say anything. You ask me what my winrate is. I still don’t say anything. This leaves you with two options:
Suggest that I switch, because you think I must have a low winrate if I’m not saying anything. Or you can just not say anything, and decide to trust me, not knowing what my win % is. Because you don’t know, you are not immediately tilted; you are awaiting results from my gameplay to determine whether or not I make a good Mei. Let’s say we win the game. Let’s also say that my win percentage is 30%. That’s a bad percentage, but I guarantee you that if you didn’t know what it was, and you saw me performing decently, that you would want me on your team again next match. It’s understandable. It’s a reasonable, logical conclusion.

“I saw some good ice-walls. We won the match. Must be a good Mei.”

Now let’s say at the beginning of the match you saw my 30%. You might be annoyed by the fact that I picked Mei. In this case, you are emotionally compromised as a player. Even the slightest bit of emotional distraction can have a great effect. You’re going to look for mistakes in my gameplay, instead of what I’m doing right. You’re going to try to assess everything I’m doing, and form it to the stats you see on my profile. This doesn’t mean that you are incorrect, but that you suddenly have a bias towards the player in question.

It’s less that people want to hide themselves from shame, and more that people do not want to deal with the emotionally complicated process of explaining one’s low win-rate, reasoning why they don’t want to switch, etc.

Because if they don’t want to switch, they won’t. And nobody can do anything about that.


#67

First off, it isn’t your place to order your teammates to switch.

Secondly, you know, there’s this crazy thing called “communicating with your team” to build a viable team comp. sounds like you just want an excuse to flame people/order others off of heroes they chose. If they throw/pick a throw pick, report them. Simple.


#68

Reading through most of this thread, it’s pretty obvious that OP is a toxic person in general and no doubt in the game when things don’t go their way. They are just trying to save face here, while still arguing. So glad profiles are hidden from people like this now, who comb through win rates and other useless stats to “kindly make suggestions” which only servers to create a toxic game 100% of the time.

OP keeps arguing with an entire community of people who don’t feel the same as they do and when told how they were actually being toxic in their own scenario, they double down and then say “have a nice day!”

Yikes.


#69

I don’t think it’s fair just to outright call OP toxic. What they’re annoyed about is completely understandable, it’s just that they’re wishing for some control that they can never have.


#71

It wasn’t just outright. I read through about 6 of their comments here where they were being “fake polite” which is really just toxicity with a smile.

Kind of like those movie cheerleaders who walk up to the “unpopular kids” in school and pelt them with veiled compliments really meant to insult them.

It started to paint a more clear picture of OP and how they probably act in game.

I laughed audibly when they said…

Like really? That sounds like a real person telling the honest truth about how they approached that situation? Let’s be real, he saw Widow lock in, didn’t like the pick, went straight to that player’s win rate on her and used that as leverage for saying they need to swap. Then they ended up losing the match. That’s the very definition of toxic and exactly why they rolled out this new feature, haha.


#72

Yes, I understand that entirely. It seems you didn’t read or comprehend the entirity of my previous reply to the thread, that you then replied to.

What I was saying was that you (not actually YOU, but rather as an improper-noun) can use voice channels to ask someone who they play, who their main is, or if they’re willing to swap, etc, based on that information. But you don’t have to base it off that information.

Private profiles mean that they don’t want to show people, their reasons are their own. However, what it does mean is that if you want that information you need to ask now. Via voice chat OR text chat if they aren’t in voice chat. If they aren’t in either, you couldn’t ask them to swap or change playstyle/hero anyway- so there would be NO POINT if they weren’t in any channels.

The only point I see that it could be, is flaming that person or trying to justify treating them as a scapegoat (which is extremely common, due to the current system). With the new system, you cannot use someone as a scapegoat easily because they can hide their profile, so you instead have to politely ask them about their information or if they’re willing to share it. If they are(n’t), you can still ask them to change something.

That was my point.

Except, as much as I’d love that to be true- it’s not. It isn’t true, for any members of the playerbase. It can be as wrong morally as [redacted], doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t in a rule-book somewhere. In fact~

Unless the player is using GAME MECHANICS to disrupt team-play or intentionally not shooting the enemy, they are NOT considered to be throwing. It can be morally wrong, but it’s still not considered reportable.

That’s the problem.


#73

I believe Private profile is a right all players should have, considering what has happened in recent events in regards to privacy, Brilliant decision by Devs.

Also this encourages talking to team, esp. since you can select voice chat being on for LFG as the leader. Also the enemy can’t really cordinate counter-picking until the first encounter, instead of prior. Scouting, and gathering intel on enemy team composition will be more vital.

Best example of this from my Street fighter experience, if you knew who the opponent always uses, you can simply counter them well in advance.

Some cases back in SF4 where you can see opponents lobby in rank, and know who they use by experience alone. Same concept can be applied to rank now, considering how there will be LFG function in Live Competitive sometime soon.

This in some cases will encourage communication between players who do keep profiles private and the party.

Lastly it’s still possible to see who a person uses via Third Party sites like masteroverwatch / overbuff

Honestly, seeing a person profile tells so much info on player,
that decision made on that information alone should be allowed to be hidden as it can potentially cause distruptive gameplay between teammates. Some players are quick to judge a person via profile alone, before they even have a chance to perform. If they are taking the DPS slot, you can easily talk to them, if the match doesn’t work out, there is always the avoid as teammate feature. Another way you can avoid this problem in solo q by simply joining a LFG party and talking to the team about your experience and who you likely to pick prior to joining a match, usually do this in MMOs.


#74

And with private profiles it’s easier to lie.

I know the rules and what’s throwing and what’s not, and playing a shtwidow isn’t considered “gameplay sabotage” however, it still screws with the SR system and is manipulating the time of 11 other people, plus the trickle down effect of the SR manipulation. By your terms /morally/ wrong.

But the other side of the coin, it removes being preemptive in comp by picking a team to counter the other team “They’ll have a Pharah, can we get a strong hitscan please” or “They have a Winston main, anyone good at Reaper to keep him off our supports?”

It’s not just about the shtwhatevers with a blinks worth of played time.

Want to remove it on the forums, and any non-competitive format… go for it, but for comp… I think it’s an extremely disruptive idea.

EDITED TO ADD:

ALSO… and this is a massive issue… creating groups for comp, with hidden profiles, even with role select… that allows for a 1000sr variable, with no way to check their profile to see.


#75

I get what you’re saying, it is definitely easier to lie. That’s a big problem, but I’m willing to bet that the pros outweigh the cons. Then again, that could just be how I see things (which is pretty stubborn of me, I will admit).

No yeah I get that- but that’s something I’ve inherently disagreed with since I joined Overwatch and it’s competitive scene. I’ve always hated the idea of knowing what your enemies play so you can counter pick it. Takes away from the surprise in my opinion because, what if your team doesn’t have a hero pool that can counter it- but the enemy team DOES have a hero pool that can counter every comp your team can make? What then? You just get steamrolled because they knew from the beginning that they had won. That just deflates morale.

Yeah I can agree with that.

The problem I see overall is that, Overwatch sounds great as a concept but only 7 or 8 members of the cast are actually balanced properly, along with the fact it’s an MMO -and- a Shooter -and- a MOBA. The three most toxic things that the internet has, and we fused them all into one. Great.

The problem is that every “fix” comes with cons and we can’t possibly forsee them all. I just have to be hopeful.


#76

With the fact they rather reward people, instead of punish vile behaviour. I feel this is just another drop in the bucket of sticking a bandaid on something and mollycoddling, which enables even more toxicity.

shrugs


#77

“Soft toxicity” isn’t a thing, sorry :rofl: .

Not everything that you find remotely offensive is toxicity. That sounds like someone is just getting defensive and feels personally attacked when someone calls them out on their hero choice. If someone makes a well reasoned and polite request for you to switch, and you find that offensive, grow a thicker skin. Sure, there are people who don’t ask nicely, but that’s not what’s being discussed.

Regarding winrates, if someone correctly identifies that you have a crappy winrate on a hero and correctly identifies that you’re living up to that winrate: BEHOLD. That’s called reality. Some people find the reality that they’re bad at a hero offensive, but that’s okay, because reality doesn’t care. It just keeps on reality-ing. The nice thing about reality is that you can change it by getting better at the game. What’s happening is that people would rather hide their bad hero picks and stats instead of improving. This change just rewards laziness and soft throwing (something that actually exists).


#78

Let’s put it this way, I am not a “toxic” person as you initially suggest. I do not flat out attack players based on instinct. I also do not judge players based on their SR, heroes played, etc. There is nothing “useless” about stats… it is the raw information compiled around a player. Taking note of an individuals performance on a particular hero is not toxic, it is called being aware. This awareness allows a team make logical and legitimate calls to compose a good team composition prior to a game starting. Also, these “useless” stats can be used to identify key players on the enemy team.

This information could be called useless to a casual player, but please - don’t peg me as a toxic player because I have a legitimate request for a player to switch based on statistical reasoning.


#79

maybe give people the benefit of doubt that they are smart enough to choose what to play on their own without someone having to look up their profile and tell them what to do?

i feel a lot of toxicity stems from those “leaders” who come into games and think they know everything and dictate the game to their team

there is also the simple fact that your enemies can’t see the profile either, so they can’t counter you right out the gate by looking at your teams profile if you really have that one trick on your side

and there is still the chat you can use: just ask “can someone play a decent reinhardt? we can go rein zarya hanzo” etc.


#80

Every match that I am in - I give players the freedom to play who they choose. Again, I have no right or ability to “dictate” other players nor have I attempted to do so. I do not consider myself that leader role in which you speak of. I do however, look at player profiles for stats. I know many believe that this is not helpful - but trust me it is. There is no toxicity from looking at raw data and building an assumption off of it.

For example: If a player picks a hero ten times and loses eight of those games and wins two of them what am I to expect exactly?

I understand players enjoy picking particular heroes and I respect that. I am not looking to win every game, but I would like to know my teammates are putting forth effort towards a win. If someone enjoys playing a hero but they may not be comfortable in a competitive match with said hero, go into Quick Play. There is nothing toxic about it. I believe this “toxicity” that everyone believes is from a profile is mostly directed toward “SR” or rank within competitive. I honestly do not care what someone’s SR is as the matchmaking system keeps players close and in QP it really doesn’t matter. It is just amazing that the profiles are immediately set to private by default - that just doesn’t seem logical in my opinion.

EDIT: Again, this post is just to stress the importance of understanding a player’s hero pool, win rate, etc. during competitive gameplay.


#81

of course looking itself is not toxic, what you do with it can be though, and maybe you are not the type of guy i’m talking about, but they exist.


#82

First off Archie, I didn’t “order” anyone to switch off a hero. I simply made a polite recommendation to perhaps change to another DPS character based on the players win rate of said selected hero.

And trust me, I try to communicate with every team I am with - I really do. I will be completely honest, at least one out of every three teams will actually communicate with a mic (if I am lucky). Some will just use text (which is completely useless in a competitive standpoint - cannot make call-outs), and most teams won’t say a word. I have never sought out an excuse to “flame” another player. I didn’t continue to roast the player nor did I say anything to them that would be considered “toxic”, even during the match when their performance was below average (which literally met their win rate statistic). Also, there is really no true way to report someone for selecting a “throw pick”, as there is no way to truly define that. Even if the player selects a Torb / Sym - which may not be even viable on the map - wouldn’t be considered throwing if they are participating during gameplay and attacking the enemy team.


#83

Since people have mentioned using the “time played” information to coordinate a team composition without manually asking everyone, there is a proposal for a different solution for that: Have everyone explicitly state their hero preferences: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/a-solution-to-the-problem-of-hidden-profiles/125758

Sure, that will not stop people from overestimating their abilities or outright lying about what heroes they are good at. But being able to see their full profiles would ultimately not allow you to stop them from playing whatever they want either, as OP demonstrated in the first post with the not-so-good Widowmaker.


#84

LOL, you give more credit to the bulk of humanity when it comes to self awareness than we deserve, and no, people should absolutely not be going into comp to learn a new hero FFS.


#85

Again, wasn’t talking about being new to the hero. I was referring to how you can’t practice a serious team setup in QP unless you have friends. For example I have +30 hours on DF, but I only have about an hour in competitive. That means I’ll be making mistakes out of sheer habit from the chaos that is QP.


#86

Touché

Character Lim