My OW2 Concerns

Wait Baja YOU have worries about the game?..…I know right? Weird……

Anyway…thought I’d voice my concerns about OW2…put it in writing so to speak….but before I get to that…let me tell you a few things I’m NOT worried about:

Balance and Matchmaking - for those of you that were hopeful…let me save you the trouble….you’re going to hate them…because it doesn’t matter how many changes they make to the game….they cannot balance the game any better (or meet your expectations)….and bad matchmaking isn’t an OW issue….it’s what people have been blaming for 30 years across all games….you’re going to HATE them….just accept it now….it’ll be better for you :joy:

5v5 - you’ll get used to it….probably already more used to it than you think….and while I do think this will help with queue times I don’t think it’s going to actually change much about the game itself outside of perhaps which strategy you use….nothing they couldn’t do now with balance changes if they really wanted to…basically…we’ll live

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Ok…the stuff that worries me about the game….feel free to disagree:

Removal of 2CP (ie - game variety)

“2cp sucks”…yeah yeah I get it…you hate it…w/e…the removal itself doesn’t bother me (even though I don’t mind 2cp)…what worries me is that regardless of how people felt about it, it did provide variety to the game….2cp provided an avenue for people to do SOMETHING different when they played the game…it provided a space for some different play styles to be used…for some heroes to see the light of day (I love me some 2CP sym)……

Yes they’re adding push (and supposedly another secret game mode - crossing fingers) but I’ve seen very little to make me think it’s going to play any differently than escort/payload maps we already have (how did the pros describe their play tests? “It’s just OW” - also another reason for the 5v5 commment above)…I hope I’m wrong…but I think this change is a bad one

And for anyone that asks why less variety doesn’t bother me in the 5v5 case….that’s going to depend on the hero pool itself and what they do balance wise more than the fact that you have one less player….5v5 COULD end up being more varied depending on what they do….we’ll have to wait and see on that front

New hero additions

Specifically how unique they are….the more heroes you add the harder it becomes to actually make them unique….just look back at many of the heroes they have added and you’ll see how mixed and bloated their kits are…not surprisingly they are often hated because of it…not to mention it leads to overloading of mechanics (double barrier, double sniper, goats, double bubble….etc)….the game does NOT become any easier to balance like so many claim….and on a personal note….as a mostly MH player, more bloated kits is just an absolute nightmare (especially if they will continue to insists on hero stacking in MH come OW2)

Don’t get me wrong…I’m not opposed to adding more heroes……but if they’re just going to mishmashes of all the stuff they’ve already released….then I’d rather they just not add any…I’ve done perfectly fine playing 32 for like 2 years…I don’t NEEEEEED more

That there’s ENOUGH pve

This is probably a lost cause….because there’s never ENOUGH content….but pve is rough because the lack of the human element does make it rather repetitive….so I hope it’s bountiful and that the growth systems are well hashed out…otherwise I can see this being a BIG problem

But on the bright side this does mean more regular additions to game…one would think at least

Just how badly they’re going to botch the monetization

In game purchases are coming….like zero doubt….the plague of the game industry is going to work it’s way into the game….only question is how bad it’s going to be…but regardless of how it’s done it’s important that people realize that it won’t exist to improve the game or because it was necessary for the game to “function”…doesn’t matter how it gets framed……it will exist solely because it makes them more money…you can fall for it if you want…game quality usually suffers because of things like that…

Community

When all is said and done…OW2 (and all the changes that come with it) is trying to draw in a ton of people….many of which don’t currently play….

I really hope (probably in vain) that this “new” community ends up having a better disposition than the current one…I’ve said too much about why that is over the years to really want to go into detail here but I do believe it to be it to be the biggest thing holding the game back (with it’s just over the top negativity)….and stuff like the previously listed item on here only makes me worry even more about who might be joining in….the mindset needs to be better

My Computer

I hope OW2 can run on a potato

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I must say I think we share very similar opinions.

I always feel like it’s a cop out to blame the community for the inherent distancing of the game. Almost every online community, especially for multiplayer games, has an element of toxicity to it. That’s sadly just how it happens when you add competitiveness to any online experience. Yet other communities are nowhere near as fatalistic as this one, and I do think that the very incompitent balance changes, especially to the tanks but the supports as well, have made a lot of players very unhappy. That much is undeniable. You can’t exactly blame a tank main, having watched as their role becomes progressively less and less actually tank-y and more focused on DPSing, for not being happy with how things have turned out. You can’t blame supports for being unhappy as they’ve lost tools to actually combat the DPS as easily.

What I think really needs to change is Blizzard’s mentality. It’s 2022, live service games are everywhere, and the radio silence bs regarding any of their plans that they’ve pulled the last 5 years cannot, and should not, be a thing anymore. Keep a constant open ear to the community, actually interact with them and talk about why some changes come through while others don’t. People will still maybe be mad, but at least it wouldn’t make it feel as if Blizzard don’t actually care about how anyone feels.

(As a side note, considering Blizzard’s internal issues rn, and while I can’t really say to not buy something if you really want it, please consider at least waiting for a sale until we really know if stuff will get fixed in there. It’s a very common occurrence for crap behavior in the company to basically go unpunished by fans who pick their own fun experiences over the actual safety of the people who made it)

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Pray for ow2 being l4d3

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They can’t balance it not because the expectations are high but because they are bad at balancing. Games with such bad balancing as OW are rarity. Don’t attempt to normalize the issue with saying stuff like that.

As if we are going to have choice. That doesn’t mean we should be ok with it especially considering it does more damage and fixes nothing.

They didn’t even attempt to fix the mode. And yes I hate it too but that doesn’t mean I am fine with just discarding it or shoving it into the arcade or whatever.

New heroes keeps the game going. The heroes are literally the selling point of the game. Unless they make content that is as much as exiting as new hero, people will just lose interest especially when similar games keep adding more heroes than OW even have.

The game needed pve since day 1. It is another question if blizzard can make it appealing enough so it doesn’t get boring.

Battlepasses and NFTs incoming.

The over the top negativity was created by blizzard themselves with poor design decisions. It is not going to change if the game doesn’t change.

Same here especially when the game doesn’t seems to look any different.

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I wasn’t referring to blizz’s ability or inability to balance the game….I meant that a balance state which is considered “good” is not a possibility because our views of what good balance is are often not rooted in reality…people always push the idea of somehow managing to create scenarios where things are just completely interchangeable….which is completely impossible and unrealistic….and even if it could be done….perceived bests and worsts are always determined in any state….and THAT state is considered to be “bad” despite the fact that it’s an inevitability

Now if we want to talk about frequency of changes…or a state of constant upheaval being “balanced” blizz can certainly do more in that regard….but the thanos level equilibrium that everyone dreams about? Not happening…and OW2 won’t change that

“Over the top” means over the top…as in I believe it to be unnecessarily or overtly negative (with the constant exaggeration and hyperbole for ex)….and it’s not just negativity…there’s the cheating, the throwing, the leaving, the toxicity, the lack of team play, the selfishness, the approach to the game as far are playstyles (ex - no flexibility, Meta adherence)

People always think I’m absolving blizz of blame whenever I mention the community….they play their part as well….I think the community makes things far FAAAAAAAAR worse than it needs to be….which is why I’m concerned about what else we will be possibly be adding to it

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Can you…please…not use … in the middle of every sentence. I couldn’t even read your post due to that.

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I woudl agree with that if it wasn’t the fact that they didn’t even try to balance it properly. And as from recently why are we getting buffs for meta heroes?

Throwing and leaving are mostly exclusive to OW which just proves my statement that it is mostly a design thing rather than community itself. In fact this game had one of the best communities before comp mode and 1 hero limit was added.

Same, Same, Same.

I hope the requirements are not way higher than before :sweat_smile:

I’m also extremely worried about the statr of lower played characters who have been left in the dust, with the bastion rework it seems kinda meh, basically a wanna be soldier, what about characters like symm, torb, brig ect. I feel like the roster will be bloated with new characters while the old cast is just forgotten, or basically most of them losing their main elements that made them unique.

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Don’t forget they didn’t even fully address the problem with Bastion even in the rework: he’s too immobile and a sitting duck for the most part.

Taking away his Self-Repair makes him more reliant on Supports (which seems counter-intuitive to their idea of making every hero more independent); removing Configuration: Tank (which most players didn’t really have a problem with).

Configuration: Recon being a akin to Ashe’s Viper feels disjointed for the hero (he’s supposed to be rickety, so having it be like Soldier: 76’s Pulse Rifle made sense). The Grenade Secondary Fire looks and feels unimpactful (I don’t think I saw any of the players use it during the Overwatch 2.0 stream?). His new ultimate just puts him back at square one where he’s most impactful by being immobile.

The change to Configuration: Sentry is a good step, but it looked like it had no threat presence in the Overwatch 2.0 stream? Sure, mobility was welcomed, but it looked like it had no killing potential at even his Primary Fire’s range.

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Very true. They nerfed his damage too far and why would they remove his self healing. I think bastion has the biggest hit box for all dps. Same with his ultimate which makes him a sitting duck.

Bastion is a war machine and they should make him into one.

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Balance is my only concern for OW2.

The devs can’t balance OW1 at all and they want to rebalance the entire roster for OW2.

I expect that game to fail hard on release day.

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I wound’t call him a war machine (although his models were during the crisis). From lore, he’s more of a relic from the past that many still fear.

From a gameplay perspective, he should be something that a competent combatant can deal with (as Bastion units were mostly cannon fodder during the Crisis), but with this Bastion unit in particular, he should have unconventional methods that can throw off said combatants.

Additionally, Torbjorn’s tinkering should fulfill this role as now this Bastion is unlike his brethren, and houses more potential to be unpredictable.

Personally I would like if he got a shield, but make it so he cannot shoot while using the shield. It would help with his survivability. I would also increase the damage of recons mode gun.

Personally, I would’ve loved to see them bring back that Remote Mine from the Beta, just with maybe lower damage as a tradeoff for the slow? The shield idea could work if it degrades over time when deployed.

For his Configuration: Recon, do believe that just have a slightly tighter spread would be enough (it actually does pretty good damage, but the spread makes a lot of shots miss on the average hero’s hitbox).

For Configuration: Sentry, I wouldn’t mind it acting sort of like Rampart’s Shiela from Apex Legends: when you run out of bullets, the ability goes on cooldown, or it can be cancelled early (as a way to circumvent the ability’s duration meter).

Configuration: Tank should stay as an ultimate, as it does serve its purpose (both allowing for some parkour and displacing enemies).

Self-Repair should come back, as it is his better Secondary Fire (and is unique), but maybe just lower the amount of healing by a bit.

Yep I agree they should make sentry mode canceled early. For tank configuration I would increase the damage so he can 1 shot 225 targets.

Basically I want him to have more independence and move away from a hero that needs to be babysat by tank and support.

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Agreed, though the Configuration: Tank is relatively fine as is in terms of properties: increasing its damage in 5v5 setting might be a problem (for both the Tank and Supports, as Damage heroes can just avoid the ability with their new role passive).

Now, if you ask me, a damage hero whose ultimate is going to need looking into is going to be McCree. Perhaps a single-target execution, rather than it’s current iteration? It would fit with the western standoff thematic.

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My concern is… hero releases will most likely be much slower than they were in OW1. Now every hero made needs to work in hero missions AND have an entire set of talents made for them. Is this going to slow how often us PvP players get content? We signed up for a PvP game, will we be getting less PvP content because of the PvE aspect of the game?

I also agree with your concern, I would rather have new maps than new heroes if they are going to be hybrids of already existing heroes. I wouldn’t mind like 1 new tank and 1 new support though to freshen up those roles. While heroes are definitely my favorite part of Overwatch, maps are really what I get hyped about when they drop. Every time a new hero drops, I know I will still (try to) play Reinhardt regardless of who is added; a new map adds so many new avenues to play the heroes we already have.

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The thing about 5v5 is also that it brings with it the risk of long waiting times.
On the one hand, Tank (or Brawler as it is called) has to attract players, but on the other hand, you don’t have a backup in the form of a second tank. This will (as the strongest role) increase the pressure to perform and if you don’t play the meta hero or play badly you will quickly become the target of enormous toxicity.
Accordingly, if there aren’t any players playing the role, be it balance and / or toxicity, the queue times will quickly go back to the current level if not worse. And than we have the Supports, which could be become the second bottelneck.

A very simple thing would be a real editor to solve this problem. It doesn’t have to be Divinity: Engine now, but if we think back to Warcraft, also a game from Blizzard, and what was created in its editor: the first MOBA and tower defense to name just the two most important. TF2 has an incredible range of community maps and modes. If at least OW PvE gets a decent editor / creator, the possibilities are endless. If you look at what people in the community have created with the current workshop, imagine what would be possible with a real editor.

OVERWATCH vs TF2, but explained with food - YouTube TF2
Junkenstein's Victory - Play As The Villains! [Workshop Trailer] - YouTube Overwatch Junkensteins Victory

We can only hope and pray that it will be fair, consumer friendly and, above all, ways to get all the cosmetics without real money.