My Opinion on a Lúcio changes (3.4k Lucio onetrick)


#21

re: ult charge speed, have a fancy chart:

Character Cost of Ult Heal Gain Modifier Heal rate Total work to Ult Ult charge/sec Time to Ult Ult charge/shot
Mercy 1950 0.8 60 2437.5 48 40.625 20
NerfMercy 1950 0.8 50 2437.5 40 48.75 20
Lucio1 2625 1.267 16.25 2071.8 20.6 127.427 20
Lucio2 2625 1.267 32.5 2071.8 41.18 63.7 20
Lucio3 2625 1.267 48.75 2071.8 61.8 42.5 20
Zenyatta 2062.5 1.32 30 1562.5 39.6 52.1 45
Moira 2125 1.2 80 1771 96 22.14 50
Ana no Reload 1650 1 93.75 1650 93.75 17.6 70
Ana w/ Reloads 1650 1 82.677 1650 82.677 19.95 70

These numbers don’t factor in passive charge (5 points/sec) and presume Lucio has the number of people in his aura noted at all times.


#22

Beat’s always been 30m as far as I know, like the old aura was. They toyed with a 20m radius beat on PTR while testing the 10m aura rework, but that part of it was scrapped.

The 50% healing boost never made it to live. They had it on PTR, but the version that made it live after the PTR wasn’t the one that was on PTR - Lucio’s heals only got a 30% buff. Beat was completely untouched, it’s just bad in the meta and got rekt by the ult depletion changes.

That’s the theory, but in practice that’d need his single target heals to be strong, which they aren’t. The aura’s suited for healing disengaged or not focused targets, the boop for helping people who are being focused. You used to be able to fulfill those jobs at the same time, not so much anymore.

Mercy does the zips around saving people play pattern too, just straight better, since her default heal can actually save someone who’s under pressure. She also can stop at 15 meters because her beam has more range than Lucio’s aura. To peel well, Lucio needs to go in for the boop.

Boop was also nerfed by the universal air control changes.

To get similar healing output from his aura as you get from Mercy beam, you need 3 people in to match the nerfed beam, 4 to match the non-nerfed beam. The pattern of the heals being a lot worse since it’s a steady heal on everyone instead of a focused directable thing, of course. But that illustrates why he’s been pretty much only played in tankballs for the past year. At some point in time, raw numbers output matters, and that’s the only real way to get numbers out of him anymore.


#23

Nah not really. A slight tweak in effectiveness is all I’m asking. Never once mentioned to go “toe to toe” with the 3 main healers.


#24

Except Lúcio’s already competing with Ana (who is a main healer) for 3rd in the rankings. Increasing his healing further will make Ana’s situation even worse, as the Ana buff won’t really help her all that much.


#25

As a Lucio player myself I feel like I should know this but, did the dev team take into account the loss in healing for his ultimate when they reduced his aura range ? Did they lower the charge point treshold or not ? Because if they didn’t that seems like a severe oversight.


#26

I’d assume no. They’re not very bright.


#27

I agree with you. The aura range makes no difference to seasoned Lucio players. Instead, change his healing slightly. Either a flat increase, or make his healing percentage based so he heals the smaller HP heros the same, but can heal tanks up a little better.

I feel the same about the ult, I just wish they would speed up his ult animation slightly. The cast time is obscene with the amount of things Lucio has zero control over and will delete the slowest charging ult in the game -and it is by far not one of the best ults in the game.

I think those are the minimum to make Lucio feel more viable. But to make him feel like a fun, solid pick again I would also suggest:

  • Maybe upping Lucio’s self heal a bit; he is in a lot more danger than Brigitte to do a very similar role, and her self heal and survibility is far superior. It makes her feel like a flat better pick in most scenarios.
  • Fixing Soundwave to have proper knockback again! With the global movement update Lucio’s Sondwave -one of his best moves in his kit- has been gutted. On top of that, other heros that have knockbacks have far superior versions , and then there is the insult of Brigitte’s Chain Whip which knockbacks from 20m away and deals 70 damage to Lucio’s 25.

#28

The goals according to the balance statement are really twofold.

  1. To give Lucio more maneuverability
  2. To make his Ult become a legitimate burst damage protection.

I continue to focus on these two, because those are the stated aim (all the multitudes of other broken side effects from neglect weren’t addressed in the healer balance doc, so I assume they have no intention on working on these at this time.).

This gives us something to work with, as their vision. So, the question then becomes “do the changes they made accomplish the goals they set out to accomplish?”

In both cases, based on my experience on the PTR, absolutely not. 2 meters added is meaningless.

The most extensive change is noticed on Hanamura B. On live, if Lucio stands in the center of the point, he will cover the whole point, except the e treme 4 corners. On the PTR, it adds those 4 corners. This doesnt add maneuverability. It adds slightly more than Lucio’s height to each side of his aura.

I would like to define what I see as reasonable maneuverability. I believe that Lucio should generally be able to cover the entire control point from any spot on the point. If he is standing in a corner, his aura should cover the whole point under most circumstances. Of course not on Oasis City Center, but on most normal maps, barring line of sight.

Lucio should be able to perform his function while remaining a safe distance from Brigitte.

He should have a reasonable amount of point coverage if riding a wall in the same room as a control point.

The PTR change gives none of that, and I believe that it should go to 20m yo make it happen. The concept of the highest mobility hero in the game having the shortest leash is absurd.

The second is the Ult change. This simply will not achieve its objective because of the 0.8 second cast time on Lucio’s ult, which a priori eliminates the ability to protect against burst damage. It will, in practice, simply be stronger in the areas in which it is already strong, against Genji and Soldier ults.


#29

I feel like a 10m base aura radius with the radius increasing to 20m while amped would be the way to go.

If the primary concern with increasing the radius is not the healing, but rather the speed boost, then restricting the 20m radius to amp means that healing gets the lion’s share of the radius buff. (At least how I play him.)

I do still think the amp cooldown is a bit of an issue - 9 seconds would be more manageable.


#30

Thats because Lucio is much easier to get into than Ana. A good Ana will take a dump on a Lucio any day.


#31

You are totally wrong about the aura increase. This change does NOT encourage passive gameplay, it’s the complete opposite. Back when Lucio’s aura was 30 meters you could be way more aggressive as Lucio because you are constantly healing your team while doing aggressive plays and flanks. Nowdays with the 10 meter aura you can’t go more than 10 meters away from the nearest teammate, meaning that every Lucio becomes floor Lucio. They made him a more one dimensional character. It’s true that you should use the mobility to get to teammates, but the wallriding and mobile aspects of Lucio gets lost as soon as you are in range of your teammates.

The bigger Lucio’s aura is, the more time you can spend wallriding and being aggressive. This buff will help slightly with that.


#32

His healing numbers can actually be very solid, you just have to stick to your team and heal them as opposed to speedboosting and being a lone wolf wall-rider. Lucio’s biggest problem is that his most fun playstyle isn’t his most effective or helpful. If you aren’t on a map where you can boop people off the edge, then running boostio-style does more harm than good. I realize it’s boring but your’e much better off sticking with your team and using your speedboost sparingly, only to get to other members of the team that need healing, or when your team wants to do a rush to an area.

I think he’d do a lot better if people tried to play him as more or less a pure healer. I mean I realize that his single target rate isn’t as good as Mercy, but when you account that he’s AoE healing, his numbers end up being pretty comparable if you leave him on healing and resist the urge to go wall-riding like a madman.


#33

Nope. They do this BS all the time coughjunkratcough


#34

The same can be said for Mercy; Battle Mercy can be really fun (for some people, not me), but you’ll often be sacrificing your team mates for it. The best way to play Mercy, is more passively, and only pull out the pistol as a last resort (like her character implies)


#35

Well Mercy I think is a bit different in that her kit isn’t really designed at all around being a battle character. Guardian angel just lets her fly to her teammates, heal beam and boost beam do nothing for Mercy herself. So battle Mercy it’s kind of obvious she’s not made to be a fighter. Battle Mercy during Valk is about the only real exception here. Even if a Mercy does use her pistol now and then, her kit is kinda centralized around swapping out back to healing (after all her pistol even reloads itself while you’re healing).

With Lucio, there’s constant temptation with the choice between going speed or healing, and the fact that you can wall-ride (which no one else on your team can do), so it basically is a tool to separate you from your team. Not to mention Lucio’s weapon is generally crap from range, so it’s more tempting to get in someone’s face with it and speed boost around. Unlike with Mercy there’s not nearly as much of an incentive to switch back to healing and go rejoin your team. The solo playstyle is far more fun, despite being much less useful to your team.


#36

Actually, for the model of “main healer/offhealer” to work, the offhealer needs to provide something heal based
which both supplements the main healer, and which other main healers cannot provide.

In the case for instance of Zen, this is a no brainer…easy, reliable long range healing of mostly incidental damage. DPS people injured? Pharah? Flankers? Team can stick together and people are safe. Mercy and Moira dont have the range to top folks off, Ana has the range, but it can be tricky, and Zen can do it easily while Ana is focusing on the main group, and Zen keeping an orb on her really helps her survival.

Brigitte does this as well, through armor and rapid triage heals, she brings something unique that supplements the primary healer, makes the group’s survival significantly better and cannot be provided elsewhere.

Lucio brings…group healing that is better provided by Brig and Moira. Speed boost being his unique addition, which is less and less valuable as the continued proliferation of mobility tools goes on, but also contributes little to the group’s survival. A group only gets so much mobility in a 10m radius, it is far too restrictive to have the value it once had. It is good for taxiing groups to open on CP maps, then switching to a real healer. His other value is peeling/bopping, but it simply isnt enough to justify his use any more.

This is a large part of the “Lucio goes off to do his own thing” dilemma, because he is such a bad support, and such a bad secondary healer that he contributes very little to the team’s survival like the other two, and it is so risky these days that he has basically become irrelevant.


#37

I got to 4.4k hard maining Lucio and you can see big issues with him once you get to around 3.8k.

Compared to other heroes, you have to do a lot to get value out of Lucio. His ultimate isn’t good, and it takes a long time to charge. His AoE isn’t big and doesn’t give much, his damage isn’t high, so the only valuable thing is speed (at times) and using boop to take high ground control or get environmental kills.

There’s many glaring issues with him where right now, it’s like you barely have a sixth teammate when you have Lucio. You have to play with certain parts of your team constantly, but even then if you don’t go out you won’t get the ult charge or the value from his wall riding mobility or boop. Making his ultimate not be absolutely awful would probably be the best thing for him.

He is easily the worst support right now, even behind Ana, and I don’t think that’s going to change for a while especially considering their stance on him being “extremely viable” in their eyes. There is only one comp where Lucio is preferred, and that’s go in and hold left click comp (goats).


#38

I kinda wish his boop did a little more damage. Maybe 50?

Not even necessarily from a balance perspective. Just viscerally. It feels like it should do more damage than it does. It doesn’t feel quite rewarding enough right now.

(Though, the damage would help with harassing snipers and other healers.)


#39

Graviton is one of the fastest ults to charge in the game unless you can’t maintain energy. I’ve seen people get them in less than 30 seconds before. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Lucio even come close to farming an ult that quickly.

One of my main problems is how slowly his ult charges for how low impact and short lasting it is. Combine this with the fact that it’s easy to interrupt, hard to time, and Lucio has very predictable movement during it, making him easy to kill, and I think the ult buff should go a bit further (make it charge faster).

I love the aura range increase, but agree that his healing is still a bit too low. I don’t want the range reduced to live, though.

I don’t think increasing the range would make much of a difference on sound barrier. It would only help a fraction of the time, similar to the deadeye range increase. It’s minimal.

I agree that his passive healing should be increased. Alternatively, his amp cooldown could be reduced to 10 seconds.


#40

That would be broken as hell.

Lucio’s damage and dueling potencial is already really good but if boop did 50 damage you could output 100 damage over 5 seconds from just boop alone (initiate with boop then use it as soon as it recharges). In the meantime you just punch or shoot and you would kill everything. I am not even talking about the fact that it costs no ammo.
This change would actually make Lucio into a dps