My opinion on 1-3-2 (horrendous decison)

General Discussion
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Seems like entitled dps players may get what they want. Unfortunately it would come at the cost of team oriented gameplay. Here are my list of pros and cons.

Cons

  • reduction of synergies, combos and teamwork
  • most tank players get screwed. All tanks (especially off tanks) will need reworks and lots of pressure will get put on the solo tank to more than likely not even have much say in the outcome of a match. Walking sponge and Shield bot springs to mind.
  • 1 specific tank will likely become meta so will become even more boring role than currently is.
  • tank players like myself who enjoy teamwork will leave
  • some healers also get screwed. Heroes like ana and zen will stand no chance against a comp like genji, tracer and doomfist ESPECIALLY when off tanks will no longer exist to peel. Would need reworks or health increased probably.
  • team oriented gameplay takes a massive hit and it becomes more about individual plays by the dps and possibly healers.
  • people like myself who enjoy this game for the team oriented gameplay will look elsewhere for it.

Pros

  • dps get quicker que times MAYBE
  • no more double shield

IMO it would be such a shame to shift away from creating more engaging tanks, better balance, decent incentives to flex etc and instead change the whole philosophy of this team based game just to cater to 1 over populated role.

The game as it is is enjoyable and effective for all 3 roles but is ruined simply by slow/bad balance decisons. Tank busters need toning down, snipers without weaknesses shouldnt exist, burst healing needs toning down, cc needs toning down and we need more regular changes.

Imo :upside_down_face:

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The only synergy removed would be the loss of double main tank stacking which in itself is broken. You could use the exact same argument against 2-2-2 and how it removed the GOATS synergy. Other synergies like Orisa-Hog, Rein-Zarya, Winston-Dva would stay possible and viable at 99% certainty.

The game is never ready and will need changes and reworks all the time. The job of the off-tank will be move on the dps team. Most of them can already for example peel but in many cases you just can’t afford to run those dps. Also the off-tanks will be in dps category where they can continue on doing that.

Which is totally different from current situation of 2 tanks being meta and after the other tank player picks one it leaves you with a massive amount of 1 choice.

And you are better and more important player than the majority who play dps because…?

Again you can run dps that can peel, you can run old off-tanks that can peel. Infact there’s always the danger that we would see resurface of old quad tank in the form of something like Rein/Orisa/Sigma, Dva, Zarya, Hog and 2 healers.

Teamwork will always trump non-teamwork. Isn’t one of the biggest causes of whine here the feeling of not being able to change the result of matches? It’s not something just dps players whine about. Solo tank will also hold huge impact, you literally earlier said it will cause pressure on solo tank but why would that happen if he doesn’t have playmaking possibilities and it’s just the dps doing things?

And a lot more you just happened to choose ignore.

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dva as a dps, jesus i’d just uninstall probably

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Not even hard remove orisa ball sigma from the game. Would still look more like ow and better than 321

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Thats false. We could potentially lose many double tank synergies like zarya/rein, zarya/ball, zarya/orisa, winston/dva/ball, orisa/hog etc. All of which compliment eachother in 1 way or another.

No they couldnt. Tanks would be completely reworked and even if they just moved them to the dps role then you would barely see them due to dps only wanting to play dps. You cant say anything with 99% certainty when theyve openly stated that synergies and team based gameplay would suffer. The chances of both being high relys heavily on 2 tanks imo

I think there currently alot of leeway in the tank roster at most ranks. You pretty much can go with any main tank and off tank(except perhaps dva) and win games.

Where did i claim i was?

Its quite simply team oriented players VS. Entitled dps players in this debate.

In a dream world where dps players actually cared about peeling. Nah lol

The impact of the tank will likely lay with the hero choice. The rest will be down to your dps and healers imo. Role will become even more dead if it ends up being like this

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What about Rein / Zarya or Winston / D.Va? These core staples of tank play from very early on in the game would be lost forever.

Not if they all remain tanks and you can only have 1 tank. They only talked about moving Hog. D.Va and Zarya might remain tanks for all we know. And if they move to the DPS slot, those synergies would likely go away or you’d basically have a tank masquerading as a DPS. That would possibly mean that whatever team picked the miscategorized tank won. That and if they move D.Va to the DPS slot then I’m done with this game forever.

I agree with the OP 1-3-2 is one of the worst ideas in the history of Overwatch.

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They wouldn’t be “completely” reworked. Even in Jeff’s own example Roadhog only lost 200hp and the damage reduction which for example doesn’t hurt the Orisa-Hog synergy in any way. Hog never did actual tanking and the synergy lies in halt hook combo which would still be possible. Zarya is already a dps in tank category. The only thing making her a tank is projected barrier, a 2 second bubble on long cd. As long as she kept projected barrier then the Rein-Zarya synergy would hold. There’s almost no chance Zarya would be reworked into a main tank since she would require so many changes. D.va could be possible to make into a maintank but again most likely not. As long as she keeps being beefy and mobile the synergy with Winston would still be there. Off-tank players would most likely queue in dps like they already do. Infact the chances of getting Rein-Zarya in 3-2-1 is higher than in 2-2-2 because now if you pick Reinhardt you have to hope the other tank can and want to play Zarya. In 3-2-1 there are 3 players who could pick Zarya.

That’s a good joke. Current GM pickrates for off-tanks Roadhog 1.76% (highest), Zarya 0.77% and D.va 0.25%. Off-tanks currently don’t exist. Currently you play Orisa, Rein or Sigma.

You used quitting as an argument not only once but twice. There are tons of people quitting because they don’t even get to play the game because of the queues. So obviously you think it’s ok they quit but the game changes should be kept with your quitting in mind instead.

Great argument.

It couldn’t be any more dead than it already is.

Answered above.

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I don’t think that your answer is correct.

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I disagree. The extra dps slot is about catering to dps players wanting to play dps. If off tanks get moved to dps it wont stop players from just choosing reaper, genji, hanzo etc.

Why are u bringing up GM pick rates when that’s like 1% of playerbase?

Many of us stopped playing before cus games were too random and uncompetitive… Every1 can never be happy

Well it is, cus majority of dps players dont care about protecting supports who are being flanked

Of course it could lol. It could defo be improved tho with better balance and more tanking options. Thats the route they should go down instead of 1-3-2 :smiley:

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Not really commenting to say your opinion is wrong, but that there are more sides to what you’re saying than what you’re letting on.

This (1) point seems a bit misleading. Even in Jeff’s post about it I was a bit skeptical of his wording.

There is a lot of teamplay to be had in a triple dps comp when it comes to controlling angles and taking engagements properly. Rogue didn’t steamroll all of the NIP-comp copycats with their triple dps dive by throwing teamplay aside - they pushed it to its max.

While ladder play would become more about individual plays (which, let’s face it, is probably a good thing given the nature of randomly matchmaking players) I don’t think it’s fair to say the highest levels would be less about teamplay. It will always be important, even in full dps games.

Not to mention, FPS players who enjoy what they perceive as a more engaging and skirmishy playstyle will continue playing and might even start playing again.

The mindset of the tank role would no longer split between strictly “creating space for your team” and “supporting your maintank as a tanky dps”. It’d be strictly creating space for the team, with the dps-oriented subcategory being moved to an arguably more fitting role. That would mean the shield tanks could now be given buffs that give them more utility without being seen as a “replacement” for off tanks (sigma comes to mind).

Also, there’d be less tank players in queue, but a higher percentage of tank brains in queue.

What worries me about moving offtanks to dps is the offtanks still playing like their former selves, and being seen as must picks over other dps. For example, if they don’t nerf roadhog enough, we could easily end up in a situation where you’re throwing by not picking him instead of a third dps.

Having one specific tank that one player must choose from doesn’t seem much different than having two specific tanks that two players must choose from.

Many healers would become much better too, don’t ignore that. Mercy and lucio would skyrocket in viabilty.

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How would they stay possible with only 1 tank ? Or are you saying that they should also strip down the tank roster and remove even more tank players from the queue ?

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I like faster Q times fo everyone, but as you said; the inbalances would become severely apparent. Some compositions (most hyper aggressive ones) will become meta, and slow heroes will just become useless, if not significantly reworked.

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The meta with 123 will be more restrictive
From a personal standpoint I don’t want to be yelled at every match because I play D’Va only and she is a tank. I also don’t want to end up further clogging the DPS queue if she gets moved.

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You can’t say that with certainty because ultimately it’s the developers job to balance it, and if they fail, it will be restrictive. But having the choice of one viable tank for one player, is still just as restrictive as having two viable tanks for two players, if it comes to that.

Especially if the meta really is less focused on tanks like OP said - if that’s true, having a bad tank under 1-3-2, where the tank role is already now seen as unimpactful, should be more salvageable to the dps, no?

That said I don’t even think their 1-3-2 experiment was designed to test the meta and its viability, but rather the overall experience (and the experience the players expect) as a whole. That was the feeling I got from their post, at least.

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Even if Blizzard gets 98% balance on all tanks there will still be that one that is the tank that everyone wants to be in every match. Chances of it being D’Va is low so guess I’ll have to either get yelled at or quit ?

It’s bad enough with two when playing off meta tanks like D’Va

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It’s bad enough with two because players know the synergy between two correct tanks is insanely valuable.

There’s no telling what the tanks look like on their experiment or how big of a detriment the “wrong” tank actually is. If it’s like OP says, and tanks are unimpactful, it’s entirely possible that the “wrong” tank under 1-3-2 could still be better than not having, for example in our current situation with 2-2-2, double shield.

It is a real concern with me too though. I’ve said before in the past when people suggested this type of stuff that having one person solely responsible for the fate of a single role is scary, and it kinda is. If the correct tank remains super high impact (for example, more impact than a single dps might have), unless the tanks receive buffs that allow them to perform in a wide range of situations without switching to the perfect tank… it would be a real detriment for matchmaking.

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If the game goes to that I won’t be playing anymore which is really sad after so much time

18

Yeah same here.

I highly doubt it will tbh

1 Like