She’s viable and fine, but I don’t see why they needed to change her in the first place. She’s the most balanced support imo.
1 Like
Because the community as a whole felt she was too much value for too little effort, and the kit design in turn meant she was less useful at the higher levels of play.
Balanced doesn’t necessarily equate to good design.
1 Like
How was she ‘too much value’? That ‘value’ didn’t help her for being picked until she was meta. Tho it was more cause she was the only main healer who could do something against shields.
Just find it funny how the whole ‘too much value for effort’ wasn’t a real problem until she became meta…
1 Like
I disagree. I think that Moira is not objectively worse than these heroes, she just serves a different, more stable purpose. In fact, I would argue she is easily one of the most flexible supports, outside of her lack of vertical movement. Most of the heroes you named have pretty significant peaks and valleys because of the design of their kits. Their utility is either greatly desired or completely unnecessary. Moira has a much more stable niche in that there is almost always a role she can fill with her high stats, ability to bait out CD’s and difficulty to elim.
This is primarily what I am arguing against. These stats are being artificially deflated by low skill moira players who are deranking right now, and the tail end of a meta that Moira (and every healer basically) had lower overall stats in.
This is exactly what is happening. They tried giving her utility. But it was silly, not good for her kit and crazy OP in some cases. This was a much better direction that added more impact and more skill, without totally throwing a wrench in her balance and the meta.
She has less resource, less passive healing and has to aim better. In return they rewarded people with significantly more resource gain and about 8% more HPS. So she can heal 8% faster, and for Moiras that are very good at regening their resource, they can realistically have her healing significantly more often than ever before. It just requires much more effort to achieve that, and it is not just passively given to you.
1 Like
The only problem I have with Moira is no utilty but other than that she is great.
We can disagree all day long. At the end of the day, stats showed that Moira was a “meh” pick for years before double shield was meta. Then, on the second iteration of double shield she was not even required further showcasing how weak when compared to the rest of the healers she was.
And now, she is only sligthly increasing her pickrate due to other factors like dive comp.
Again, we can disagree as long as we agree on FACTS such as stats showing that she is viable but still below multiple support heroes. AT LEAST FOR NOW.
Agreed.
However, using the same argument Moira’s pickrate stats are being inflated because this meta is favoring her.
At the end of the day I do agree that we will need more time to judge if she is as good on this meta as you believe or not, nevertheless, as things are right now, she is not as good as others and still performing below average.
Time will either reinforce this idea or (hopefully) prove me wrong.
1 Like
If many people are losing games and SR then she’s not that great of a state.
They made her harder, not weaker. This is why people are deranking and losing. They aren’t adjusting, or they are not good enough at her anymore to maintain their rank. There is a big difference between a character just being weak and them reworking the character to make them harder.
Her drain is 27% faster
I mean the overall changes are a net nerf, and the increased difficulty is so minor that it’s mostly only effecting low ranks. High rank Moiras weren’t just holding down the spray button anyway.
2 Likes
Across most of the ladder mediocre players were doing too good with her. Its been a problem since day 1.
1 Like
But didn’t she suck past gold with all this value lol
1 Like
I disagree, I think it is overall a net buff. If you manage your resources well, you can heal faster and more often. You aren’t just passively handed the tools to be successful for her, you have to actively seek impact on Moira now, and are rewarded more for doing it.
This. I don’t think it was as much of an issue at Day 1 (as she received nothing but efficiency buffs for the better half of a year after her launch, making her much easier to play), but certainly not as hard as it is now.
No. Not really. You can heal for more but not really faster as the 2 second duration nerf means less lingering healing.
Yet, after those players start getting to diamond even in plat a little bit those players are going to be facing people who know how to aim and can use coordination/teamwork. Her value dropped off a cliff once you start getting into diamond on up compared to the queen of utility known as Ana.
Those players would of dropped in rank cause they are not good enough unless they were running in a group and getting hard carried.
You understand that the 2 seconds starts AFTER you finish healing, right? It does not stack on top of your primary healing. So it is a net primary healing buff, but nerf to the HOT duration after. The duration nerf to that hardly had any impact outside of making it so moira players have to actively tap heal more often, which means they interrupt their passive regen more.
4 seconds is a LONG time and you could brainlessly spray your team to give them essentially a lucio heal aura for 4 seconds after you stopped thinking about them. Bap’s regen burst does that on a 13 second CD now (granted regen burst also heals bap for 30hps)! Lol 2 seconds is still a decent amount of time. If you are more active with the tap healing, they actually buffed the tap healing HPS to 17.5 from 16.25, so realistically if you are more active with the tap healing, it is more effective. Another higher skill, higher reward change.
Yes. But midfight you’ll probably have to spray someone more than once, depending on how long the fight lasts. And if they were already receiving some healing, that is less you’d have to heal back up when you spray them again. Typically resulting in a faster return to full health.
Having to tap heal more often is not only expending more resources to accomplish the same thing, but it’s slower because it takes longer to heal up more missing health.
Costing more resources for a similar reward doesn’t sound like a buff to me. It’s a nerf. She’s really overall not healing more than she did before. It’s a bit slower but higher quality, over faster but lower quality. The net result is about the same total heals in match. But they cost more resources, making them less consistent and easier to mess up or be pressured and monopolize more of your time.
If you’re not actually being tangibly rewarded for increased difficulty, it’s a nerf.
1 Like
The majority of the points you’re trying to get across will fall on deaf ears unfortunately. A lot of the players on the forums either aren’t willing or are unable to understand any kind of balance that doesn’t instantly and obviously 100% DIRECTLY benefit them. The concept of something being worse in certain scenarios but being better in others (moira not so easily taking care of flankers by existing now since she requires ever so slightly more aim or the fact that her heal isn’t as much auto value now) is something a lot of players tend to miss.
Not considering the fact that healing as a whole has been reigned down A LOT. I see this change as completely positive, and gives more towards the motto of moira’s “one hand gives- the other takes away” playstyle, and requires you to do more (not a lot more but slightly more)in the way of being active in the fight to get the same value.
The same people saying it’s a net nerf were the people abusing her autopilot playstyle.
1.She requires slightly more mechanics to deal with flankers or to deal dps? Sure that’s fine that’s been an issue since day 1
2. Active heal increase but linger effect halved? Nerf overall I guess, but it’s kind of needed. (and when taking into consideration the regen rate increase on the heal meter its kind of a buff)
3. Fade is STILL one of the best abilities in the game. Very very good escape. In lower elo moira was being picked due to her ease of access, but in a scenario where you’re being farmed by a doom/flanker on something like ana, moira’s fade is literally a gamechanger
1 Like
Literally everything you posted here translate to essentially: if you are better at managing your resources and are a higher skill player, you can achieve more, but if you’re not you will be achieving less.
Yes, you can be pressured easier. Yes, you can mess up more easily. And absolutely yes, your time and APM on Moira is much more valuable.
The tangible reward is faster healing for both her regen and her heal over time, at the cost of having to be much more active in regening your resource and applying the heal over time. How is that not a tangible buff?
No. It doesn’t. It translates to you are putting in more effort for the same reward as before.
More risk and effort for the same reward is not a buff.
Her healing style has slightly shifted but the power in it has not increased.
Because it’s around the same total output of healing for more resources and risk. Yes it’s higher quality but it’s also slower and less consistent. The net result is about the same total healing in most situations and in any given match. With some situations helped and some hurt by the heal style change.