Minor Sombra change?

Because the “emotional damage is short term” It doesn’t stay. And in many cases acts a motivator to get better in a lot of cases.

Were you hit a euphoric emotional state, which is basically frogers entire channel content.

Just him riding the highs of the widow 1v1 as lucio.

If your the type of person that ultimately doesn’t want to reach that point, then multipayer games that put you up against other players or challenging style content just forces to improve might not be the style of game your looking for.

What is your job title?

Nobody with your job title should ever say that.

Scientifically it takes anywhere between 3 to 6 positive experiences, to cancel out 1 negative experience.

And you’re acting like it’s 1 to 1.

Like for real, how?

A bit of gamer rage isn’t something any designer should be concerned with.

it’s going to happen regardless of it’s widow maker or that one random moria orb that seems to be chasing you across the map. Or that one slow moving platform you for some reason keep bouncing off of.

As long as the player has consistent tools to combat such in the complex scenario that is OW big team fights. Which can play out in a infinite number of ways.

Then their is no real reason to have to remove a component many people do in fact enjoy. for the most part we should be looking at making sure their aware of said tools, and willing to smooth out the learning curve the best we can.

Because I’ve been asking you pointed questions and either getting

  1. It doesn’t matter
  2. Some vague unrelated tangent

Am I supposed to be okay with that?

Like you say the emotional angle matters, then flip over saying “technically possible to defeat is good enough”
Those are mutually exclusive statements.

Like I know you’ve read this multiple times.

So why are you disregarding basically all of it?

https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2477

I don’t know where I have been vague.

MY points are that the widow match isn’t unrealistic for any player to deal with. And come down to mostly just understanding how to move around the map.

That once most players reach past that learning curve, they in themselves tend to start enjoying that interaction.


Widow creates a unique interaction that does keep the game from going stale int he long run, along side all the other heroes that create unique interactions. And the endless ways they can be mixed and matched.


No not everyone will enjoy the experience your trying to provide. And nuking the interactions in question doesn’t resolve the issue as you now have a whole host of angry players from the other side of that interaction.

You specifically are suggesting that their fun isn’t worth another person having a bad time, and they can’t have their toys because of it.

Which ultimately leaves a bad taste in most players mouth. And does more harm then good in the vast majority of scenarios.

Are you saying that the vast majority of players enjoy countering Widow?

Or a relatively small minority group?

I’m saying half the Widow playerbase could quit, and they probably wouldn’t lose any net amount of players.

Scale and Proportion.

In most scenario’s you already have a counter for her on her team. Like rien and d.va are some of the most played tanks, and you just need to shoot the widow from behind him. Or ask them nicely to jump at her. let alone the many flankers that people like to play.

And or just walk around the flank to pop shots into her back end. Because most maps give you completely covered paths to flank the hero that by very nature has tunnel vision.

And most people that have played an FPS will already be very familiar in how the latter interaction works.

And what part of that is substantially more emotionally gratifying for the majority of the playerbase?

Than countering any other hero in Overwatch?

Because snipers create very specific kind of tension and pay-offs for now having “effectively” open air to do things. And involve a bit of planning and game knowledge to pull-off which is satisfying in it’s self.

people been crafting path around the sniper slight line and or sniper duels scenarios since fps campaigns have been a thing.

Heck Metal gear has at least one in every game.

Well then, how about Double the respawn cooldown for a death on Widow.

Well their you go again trying to just nuke the hero out of the game.

have a great night now.

For real dude, why is it so difficult to discuss a “Feels Bad” issue, without you turning it into a Tierlisting Issue?

Because their are layers of nuance here. Especially when talking about the long term health the game and keeping people interested.

And your argument is kind of just black and white.

beginning and ending with, this doesn’t make me feel good so it shouldn’t be in game.

And are trying to convince me the seasoned game designer that this is a correct statement.

There really isn’t.

Half the Widow playerbase could quit and they wouldn’t lose any net amount of players.

There’s just not enough players involved for that kind of downside to exist.

Yes, literally every other modern FPS in existence does what I’m talking about. Besides Overwatch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/12wi53y/hottake_snipers_are_strangling_playerbase_growth/

Including the one that Widow is directly designed of.

https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2477

And the amount of players potentially quitting if it goes bad, is so small, that it’s really not physically possible to be a concern.

Yes, because this is very commonly understood nueroscience.

Like, it’s basically Physics for the brain.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrobinson/2020/10/16/10-ways-the-3-to-1-positivity-ratio-can-advance-your-career/

Keeping in mind “Game Theory” is effectively “The Math and Psychology of how human beings make Choices”.

Which is also, really close to Physics.

https://lawofgamedesign.com/2014/02/20/zileas-list-of-game-design-anti-fun-patterns/

And this were my friend I can confidently state you are wrong.

OW wants to cast a large net of players from all sorts of genre’s, playstyles, and just cultrual back grounds even if that last bit is hard to see just playing on just the US servers.

They benefit considerably more so from having the FPS nuts having a hero they are not only familiar with mechanically but can manifest their experiences into kills or match wins, by having them rub against the moba players that use their unique game mechanics to set-up a check mate scenario where that fps nut has to outskill or die in.


That is what ultimately overwatch is, what makes it unique, and what it will forever be regardless of the format changes or the reworks or the insistence of players from any corner of this argument that the other corner shouldn’t exists.

And that’s were I will leave this conversation. Have a great night now.

It’s 3% of the playerbase.

If 1 in every 3 Widow players quits.

That’s 1%.

And if there’s a Widow nerf strong enough for that.

Are you 100% certain that they could not get an additional 1.01% players, because of that?

So I genuinely don’t know what you’re making less than 1% of the playerbase sound like a large fraction of the playerbase.
(Especially if it’s only 0.1%, with a targeted fix)

I’m literally quoting the most senior gameplay designers at Riot and Valve, and those two companies account for all the top eSports games.

And otherwise, literally every other modern FPS game in existence is following the guidelines I’m talking about.

So I have no idea what you’re referencing.