Mercy's Resurrect is fine


#1

Hi everyone,

I see a lot of people upset with her current iteration, and many think the problem lies with Resurrect. I really don’t see it as a problem.

I think its fine as an ability and not ultimate. I main Mercy a lot, but I never played hide and seek during mass Rez. It was too risky and rarely ever paid off. I used it to tempo rez 2-3 heroes and always got more value instead of a sweet 5-man. I would just GA from target to target, ping-pong heal the entire team until Mass rez was up. Than I’d tell my team to play risky. Our dps/tanks would dive in to get a pick. If they made a mistake, I’d swoop in and rez 2-3 players. This was OP, and needed to go.

When they changed it, I was happy. As an ability, I think it’s much easier to balance Resurrect instead of the Mass Rez ultimate. First, resurrecting someone is a risky play. Not because you put yourself at risk. If your team is good, they provide cover while you rez. It’s risky because you have to stop healing. So many times I’d rez someone, but only to have someone else die. The trade-off for resurrecting a teammate is the rest of your team is left vulnerable. I never rez until my team is fully healed first.

Mass Resurrect didn’t’ have that risk. If it was up, I’d never be afraid to use it. It didn’t matter how many heroes I could get, there was never a risk of using it. Using it efficiently didn’t even matter, because I was getting it quite fast. Next team fight I’d have it back up. All abilities, even ultimates, need a risk/reward aspect to keep the game balanced, and Mass Resurrect didn’t have that. It was all reward.

I see a lot of people say “Mercy doesn’t earn that res” and that is ridiculous. We don’t earn anything. We have tools at our disposal, and each tool comes with inherent risks and rewards.

Resurrect is fine on E. It requires deep decision-making, and needs coordination from your team. However, I wouldn’t be against adding 5-10 seconds to the cooldown instead of the nerf to her healing.


#2

Meh, I don’t know. Her Rez was much more valuable and required more thought when it was an ultimate, because it had to be charged before it was used again, possibly determining how a fight would conclude.

Her Rez is on a simple cooldown. It mostly saves a person from walking back from spawn. She’s not nearly as fun or effective as she used to be. She became boring to me. Mercy never shines or does anything truly worth recognition anymore. I miss the unpredictability and change-ups her Ult Rez would create: When you thought it was over, Mercy came. When you thought you had it won, Mercy came. It added so much more variability.

I still say bring back 2016 Mercy. Until then, my wings stay cut-off. I dropped Support entirely after she was changed and became a DPS main.

You don’t hear any amazement from your peers when Mercy casts Valkyrie. She just floats around and heals faster…zzzz. It helps, but it hardly compares to flying in and giving your team another shot, which they actually appreciated you for.


#3

But there was never a risk to using old mass rez. And charging ultimate was never really a big problem. It didn’t make it valuable, because I was able to get it up rather quickly.

And this meant precious seconds that few can afford in this hectic fast-paced game.

Fun? Boring? that is subjective and I respectfully disagree. She is fun and exciting for me. Effective? I don’t know what you mean by that.

I don’t play for recognition to ‘shine’ so I don’t know what you mean.

unpredictable? variability? I disagree again. I knew what would happen when I used it. I brought a dps back to life and continued healing. As an ability, there is more risk, thus being inherently more unpredictable.

This discussion is about Ressurect, not Valyrie.


#4

You clearly have your mind made, so I’m not going to get into a major debate here. I’m just going to give my reply to clarify.

This discussion is about Mercy’s Resurrect, which was replaced by Valkyrie, making it’s mentioning relevant.

The unpredictable nature of the Ult Rez was in the match’s outcome. Yes, you knew you’d Rez people, but how, when, and what came after was the unknown. Rezzing 1 person hardly compares to Rezzing 4 people after a team wipe-out. If you want to add risk to her Ult Rez, then change the way it functioned. Make it slow, make it charge up like a McCree Dead Eye, whatever.

Her Rez currently does not create “precious seconds” very often. It just doesn’t. It’s mostly used when someone is picked-off and you Rez.

Fun is subjective, fair. As for effectiveness, I mean what she brings to her team overall. She doesn’t have the same impact as a player. You don’t feel as though you make a huge difference that any other healer could make.

Recognition is important. It designates the value you bring to your team. Mercy is not noticed anymore. Her Rez used to be game saving. Valkyrie is again, just floating and healing. I played Mercy back at launch, and I remember many times using my Rez and making a play that changed the outcome of the fight, or the match itself. Teammates would be in awe that a Mercy did something to give them another shot at a victory. Mercy does not deliver this experience for the player anymore.

I personally think the old rez had a lot of risk. What is the current risk? You stand still…and maybe get killed? Sometimes you’re better off just healing everyone else, unless the dead guy had an ult or was a crucial component (main tank). The old Rez was a game changer. If the Mercy died with Rez, the game may have been over. Killing a Mercy used to be a lot more important. A Mercy was skilled to know how to position themselves and survive to make an important Rez.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and that’s fair. I personally dislike Mercy the way she is. She’s passive and serves as a healing beam. I had 200 hours on the former Mercy and she was the first Hero I made it to Master’s with. I enjoyed her a lot.


#5
  1. Is rez off cooldown?
  2. Are there any enemies close by?

If yes yes to the first and no to the second you rez, otherwise you don’t rez. Don’t find it particularly complicated.


#6

I understand where you’re coming from.

However, with this current iteration, I find myself hiding more - I actually hide now - in order to get a resurrect. There is arguably more unpredictability with it, as it’s an ability and you don’t know when the enemy will use it, but it’s for one ally and you also know how often she’ll get it. Can one ally change the course of a fight? Possibly?

What I enjoyed about old Mercy, Launch Mercy, was how active she was.

One could argue she can do more in terms of utility now but what more is there, truly? A more niche resurrect?

With a single resurrect, it isn’t about priority. It never has been. It is now, “Do I have resurrect off cd? Is it safe? Does this person have ult? Are they in a safe position?”

Minimal thinking involved, and during a teamfight you’re lucky to get maybe one. Teamfights are too unstable for such a lackluster ability, even if it is the most powerful in the game. This version works best before a fight to nullify first pick and afterward to help prepare for the next fight.

Why is this bad? Not ideal? This is a very fast paced game. Do you really want to stun yourself while bringing back an ally who died because of dumb luck/RNG? You lose healing by doing so. A drawback, yes, but also a feature that goes against what she is - a consistent healer. If you press a button that halts your job of healing, and more allies die because of it, is that an ideal setup? I don’t believe so.

I rarely resurrect now because I feel bad doing so. It’s not that I choose poor allies to resurrect (I mean, I could, that’s not out of the question), it’s that, fundamentally, I cannot support my own during it. The self stun goes against her own design of being highly mobile.

With her old ultimate, you could press Q and continue healing. This is because resurrect wasn’t a channeled ability. This was ideal, to me, because you could continue being a healer to your remaining allies even if you caught one or two in your radius. Mercy invun was useless because it nullified counterplay.

You didn’t need it to be useful either. I didn’t. I never saw a difference with it, just more yelling directed towards me for their lack of awareness.

This current version is more watered down, less impactful, but also less annoying. You know roughly when she has it, and if you kill a high value target, you can guess who she’ll resurrect.


#7

I think Mercy is finally balanced, but her Rez/Valk could be more “aesthetically pleasing” by making them feel both engaging and impactful.

Specifically, more interactivity and skill ceiling with Valk. (I.e. Not feeling powerless to counter heavier damage, and more aiming/mobility, possibly more risk of dying).

And less time/slow with Rez, even if it means other tradeoffs to make it less frequent.


#8

You’re welcome to your opinion on the merits between E rez/Ult rez but rez on E at the very least is too clunky. It just interrupts the flow of her kit way too much.


#9

People used to tell me when I suggested Mercy should be able to toggle between split beams and a strong single target beam using her empty reload-key that it was “too strong”. Maybe now with rez being the way it is she could have that at least…


#10

Mass rez could be starved by focus killing mercy or killing her team too fast. Rez on e is ALWAYS available every 30s. THAT is why she doesn’t earn rez anymore. It doesn’t matter how Nell mercy plays, she’all have rez. Bad mercys use to not have rez because they were litterally unable to charge it fast enough.

Also Rez on e took MULTIPLE nerfs than mass rez EVER had to be even remotely balanced. The only thing that made mass rez too good was invulnerability where mercy could save her own life in the middle of an enemy ult. mass rez used to be underpowered, mercy used to be a d-tier hero which is why Bliz buffed her (in the wrong way).

Before invul, mercy could die during or after mass rez leaving allies dead or down their main healing putting them at a huge disadvantage. she was a single target healer and her team could die slowly 1 at a time and she wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. She’d only be able to rez one person at a time and still lose other players. That’s when the healer had to switch because mercy wasn’t fit for both the enemy and ally team comps.

Now she has a rez given to her all the time, an ult that she can cover every weakness she’s ever had and requires 12 nerfs to not be op. This rework has been a huge mess. It’s lasted for so long so everyone is used to playing like lemmings because mercy could bandaid their mistakes. Too many people miss having mercy on casual because she doesn’t need peeling ever and she can position anywhere so they never needed to even glance back at her.


#11

Like turning it into earnable ability ? Wasn’t that suggested on the forums more than a million times…

Valk is really boring Ultimate tbh, if i had the chance to change sth I would do this(TBH I’d actually remove Valkyrie but since it’s not an option):
1.Valkyrie no longer provides AoE heals , Now it provides single target heal,but you can heal and Damage boost at the same time
2.Rez earnable ability (option 1)
or
3.Rez only in Valkyrie, has 3-5 charges (It can be changed if it’s extremely broken , which might be)(option 2)
4.New ability - Since she’s based on Valkyries (Mythological Norse warriors) I’d give her something like that :
New E-ability : Guardian’s Blessing
Mercy chooses one teammate and gives him a Halo. While Guardian’s Blessing is active - the player that has the halo can’t drop below 1HP. Lasts for 6 seconds. Cooldown - 20 seconds. (It can actually replace Rez but since that’s not option too) (It’s not my idea- Found it yesterday and thought it would be really interesting and matching to her Guardian Angel theme)
5.Revert her healing to 60hp/s cuz we all know it was fine.


#12

To the OP. Really tho, mass res wouldn’t be OP if hey didn’t give invulnerability to Mercy. And we all know that this is what put her over the top (combined with the Ana butchering). If they just removed the invulnerability and increased the cost to match Valk’s cost I think res would be fine. Even if her healing stays at 50 hps. Her ult currently charges just fine, but the ult itself is underwhelming and IS NOT ENGAGING (which, was one of the reasons for reworking mercy in the first place :thinking:) as you just go to the skybox and look at your team slowly dying because of your low healing output.

About your idea of changing valk for it to dmg boost+ heal together, that is a big nerf to her already bad ult. She will no longer be able to use it for engagement (which is its only use currently) so what do you use it for? escaping ults. Well That is just poor ult design.

I think valkyrie needs to go, the ability is bad. What I suggest for changing Mercy is bringing her ult back to resurrect, take away the invulnerability given to mercy upon ressing, revert her heals to 60hps and increase her current ult’s cost by 20%, out it as res’ cost and leave it at that (So her ult will charge as fast as her valk is currently charging now. Which i fairly decent. Res will come up more rare than before and such and ultimate deserves such a cost.)

This will differentiate good and bad mercies as good ones will manage healing/dmg boosting properly and will have the rewarding ultimate more often than bad ones. Which solves 2 of the main problems current mercy has.
She will have a moment to shine (with res) and will require proper positioning, good decision making and target prioritization (as valk /aoe heals/ is gone).

For the complaints about Mercy 1.0 I’d probably give her some decent E ability. Pacify is something that has been going aroudn the forums a lot, if you want to know more of it (+concept art) you should read Titanium’s post, it has this idea included.

(NOTE: I don’t really like the idea of res at the thread. I think it should have high cost + high risk/high reward factor by taking away the invulnerability from mercy (I mean it would be acceptable if there was small cast time, up to 0.7 sec (lucio ult)). But I’d like NoLoS to stay as people die in absurd places)

I didn’t point out what flaws this current mercy has so I’m just gonna throw it here.

Valk is badly designed. It is a long a*s ult that can’t even keep your team up and is currently used as an engagement tool (and at that its most effective if the enemies are a player down) , which I don’t think is something a support should have. I think engagement ults should belong to tanks/some dps. During it you can heal up your team (if you are lucky enough for the enemy to have no ults/focus fire/burstDmg DPSes) which means you won’t be able to get ult charge for quite a while. (15sec + till your allies take dmg again) After the latest nerf Valkyrie feels like it has extremely high cost for near to no reward for using it.

Resurrect feels sluggish and straight up bad to use. It is the ability with most limitations in the game. I don’t think an ability which stops your MOBILITY and HEALING should be in the kit of a MOBILE HEALER. You get it every 30 seconds which means the only difference between a GM and bronze Mercy is the positioning really…

Her healing was never a problem for 2 years. Why was it nerfed now? Because her original flaws were removed. She couldn’t tempo res before (immediately after the start of the match) and she didn’t have AoE heals. If we have to rip apart the hero’s basic kit to try and balance the overall image including single target on-CD res, then there is something wrong. Mercy 1.0 worked perfectly before the invulnerability buff. If we take that away and increase the cost it will punish bad uses of it (as 5 man resses will probably leave ur team 5v6, which is easily winnable) and increase the skill ceiling (not the floor, mercy was always easy to pick up)


#13

On the contrary, mass Resurrect required more coordination and more decision-making.