Mercy's nerf was unnecessary


#286

Where do you draw the line between “by design” and “oh just those silly kids playing poorly”?

Same line of reasoning applies to Brigitte.

Imo, mass rez had a very definite and problematic design flaw in that 1 button press = 1-5 people being rezzed. Therefore, as MISERABLE as having to deal with this Mercy rework has been, I think a 1 button press to 1 rez ratio/mechanic/framework/paradigm, is the healthiest approach to the rez mechanic within this game.

It was BY NO MEANS simply an “omfg unfun to play against whaaaa” reason, there were many legitimately worthy of consideration reasons as to why it was changed from a 1:1-5, to a 1:1 type mechanic.

Don’t get me started on comparing DPS ults to Mass Rez. Not an angle worth playing in consideration to what I outlined above.


#287

your replay has nothing to do with what Iv’e said lol.
debunk this or accept the truth,rez makes
dying > staying alive with low hp true,which is a very bad thing,as an ability shouldn’t reward death.


#288

Except it didn’t because purposefully letting your team die is not encouraged by the ultimate at all and is a problem with the person that uses the ultimate.


#289

People will try to use things to their full potential all the time,and if letting your winston with 50 hp die only to instantly bring him back with full hp is a way to unlock full potential then people will do it.


#290

By the nature of the ult operating on 1 button press = 1-5 people brought back from the dead, there is an incentive to allow as many to die within a certain space, within a certain period of time. The 1:1 ratio is, fundamentally, far less problematic as it doesn’t even allow an open door to the gaming of the mechanic that came with a 1:1-5.

Throwing subjective situations does nothing to resolve that fundamental issue. For every compelling subjective anecdote that you can come up with, I can create another. Futile exercise.


#291

Sorry but a 1:5 ability that’s earned is much better than a 1:1 that’s not earned. That’s just my opinion though since that I what we are doing after all. Giving our opinions.
Titanium explains it well :slight_smile:

Surely the negative impacts of letting your team die would make such a reason to wait for your team die obsolete.


#292

I don’t agree with that at all. And you have given me no reason to agree with it. Ults have passive charge, and Mercy has a VERY easy time charging her ult compared to Zen or Ana etc outside of VERY specific situations.

1 button press : 1 rez = the healthiest rez has been in this game. Tempo rez has always been the way to truly play it, and now with limited tempo rez ability + so much else more with Valk, there is a huge value there.

As much as there have been demands for Mass Rez being put back into the game, there have been very little reasons offered as to why it was healthier outside of appealing to pick rate in pro/gm scenes, etc. The very thing some of them will argue against given a different subject.

Nah. 1:1 is worth pursing, and may lead to a decent level of Mercy. 1:1-5 was very gamey, exploitative. Rez on E as is might not be the answer, resource meter, etc etc. But no, mass rez is not something, imho, that needs to be considered at all at this point.


#293

I see what you mean.
The difference is that other heroes have been targeted because their heroes are trash tier and the insults had to do with how much their heroes are useful.
Mercy mains have been targeted with personal attacks. “Brainless”, “no skill retards”, “victims”, “martyrs” like you said in a previous post of yours.
Torb threads I’ve seen revolved around “welp, stop playing torb”.


#294

I can’t take responsibility for these various subgroups labeling mains of another hero as mindless or anything like that. People, on average, are stupid.

Everyone has received personal attacks, etc, been insulted for what they play. Just how online gaming is.

None of that really has anything to do with the balancing of a kit though. We have to ignore it tbh. It’s irrelevant.


#295

Alright, was nice.

2characters


#296

5min25sec to get mass Resurrect without doing anything (correct if I’m wrong). Now it’s 2min30sec to get 5 resurrects without doing anything.

No one has convinced me that this is the case.

Why Resurrect as an CD ability will not work and a bunch of other stuff


#297

I honestly think that if you can kill an entire team by pressing Q, you should also be able to rez an entire team by pressing Q. But that’s only my opinion.


#298

Yo. I am aware of the Titanium thread. You have done a lot lately t o make sure you link that in all kinds of different threads. If I wanted to comment on that, I’d be in that thread.

I see no reason that 1:1-5 should be brought into this game. I think 1:1 is just simpler, healthier, unexploitable, simpler, etc. I mean, look at other games that have rez. Is it ever 1:1-5? Or is it all 1:1?

0 reason, imho, for a return to mass rez. Imho, time better spend discussing change to current Mercy, or speculation on another rework. Within a 1:1 paradigm.

1:1-5, imho, needs to be let go of.


#299

Fair enough and I agree.

But what ISNT FAIR is also removing an ability because its not fun to play against. There were many chances to put LOS checks on the ability and give it a cast as well as remove the invulnerability frames. Yet none of these avenues were explored.

So how is it fair for the players who have to use this hero due to sluggish changes? She had a hard time keeping up with supports before her rework so they gave her 60hps back then. Only now with her current state and nothing in her base kit change but single target rez. Why now change her healing when it is not the problem?

I dont want her a must pick or shaping the meta anymore than the next person. But she should not be made useless and boring to those who are willing to play her.

Either get rid of her crutch (ressurect) or rework it as an ultimate with actual counter-play added to it so its fair to the people playing against her and fun for those who play her. No ultimate in the game is fun to play against, shall we remove them and make them a single target instead? Of course not, that’s silly and so is removing rez and making it a normal ability. It has too many exceptions placed on it to be a normal ability: a 75% slow, 1.75s cast, LOS, it must be within a 5m range, the longest CD in the game of 30s and the ONLY CD that does not reset on death… how is ANY of this fair?

The ability is strong that’s why all of those excpetions are added but that is also a reason to put it back as an ultimate or remove it completely. It’s being treated as an ultimatewith its exceptions but players are expected to use it as an ability?

This is a video game balancing a game around FUN mechanics needs to be apart of the design. And it can be done. She was fine for almost 2 years before players began whining about her after Ana was nerfed and gutted. You’d think people would have a heart seeing all these nerfs and for what? To make her better to play against but anyone who plays her has suffers?

I’m sure there are plenty of players that like her as boring as she is, great for them but they wouldn’t have even known about this iteration if Blizzard would have balanced her previous kit and ultimate. Hell her current ult was scraped during beta but in a scramble to “fix” what didnt need fixing they slapped this alpha build ult unto her made her former ult an ability and after 12 nerfs decided her healing is just too much to deal with so lets revert that instead of ressurect.

I think that is sad, unfair, and selfish if you want that for her player base or any hero for for that matter. But this is Overwatch… people are toxic and selfish and as long as their preferred heroes are fine they dont care if other heroes are dumpstered.

Ps… seems like a trend for balancing. An ability is not fun to play against so rather than tweak numbers or add some pit falls they remove the ability and replace it with something stronger and far more broken. Hanzo anyone?


#300

Well no one has yet to argue the points he made effectively yet. Maybe you should give it a shot :slight_smile:

Overwatch did pretty fine for 14 months with mass Resurrect. Things just started taking a toll when invulnerability came along. Also, Overwatch doesn’t have to be like every other game :slight_smile:


#301

i call this a slap on the wrist rather than a nerf, shes still broken as usual, its just that all the support players atm are taking a break to tryout all the ana/lucio/moria buffs to see if they can find something even more broken :smiley:


#302

As far as I know Titanium argues for a form of mass rez, and I just don’t consider that an option. If something within that thread invalidated my position on 1:1 vs 1:1-5, I’m sure you would have utilized it by now.

Yeah, things change. C’est la vie.


#303

Actually, I’m more or less arguing for his interpretation of a successful mass rework suggestion.

I don’t speak Germany.


#304

I don’t understand how stating what you’re trying to argue has anything to do with what Titanium is arguing in the link you presented.

Afaik, Titanium argues for mass rez, and I am fundamentally against that due to what I outlined above within this thread. From my perspective, that’s just a point of agreeing to disagree, I have no motive to read through all that.


#305

Sad face. Also,

I don’t speak Mexican either.