Mercy's HP/s vs lucio/moira

tl;dr: pick lucio/moira instead, as far as pure healing numbers go.

this will focus on her actual in-game values vs lucio and moira.
comparing utility and survivability is outside the scope of this post, since each support brings something different.

Heal beam vs crossfade w/o amp

  • heal beam
    50 hp/s on 1 target, 15m range
  • lucio crossfade w/o amp
    16.25 hp/s 12m radius (48.75 hp/s if you catch 3 people in it)
  • Heal beam remains competitive against lucio’s basic healing aura in situations where grouping up is not ideal.
  • Lucio’s healing aura is worse off if you can only heal 2 targets, but pulls ahead the moment you can catch more than 3 injured teammates (including yourself) in it.
  • It is worth noting crossfade radius is 12m compared to healbeam’s 15m.

Heal beam vs amp-it-up

  • heal beam
    50 hp/s on 1 target, 15m range
  • lucio crossfade with amp
    46.8 hp/s per target, 3s
  • Heal beam barely edges out an amp-it-up used on a single target, and is completely outclassed if lucio is in the middle of his team.

heal beam vs biotic grasp healing

  • heal beam
    50 hp/s on 1 target, 15m range
  • biotic grasp
    80 hp/s while held, 15m range (same as heal beam), aoe
    50 hp/s (same as heal beam) for 3s after you stop healing
  • On the surface, biotic grasp’s resource and line of sight requirements may seem to balance out its higher base healing.
  • However, “spritzing” even a single target once every 4 seconds will already overtake mercy’s heal beam. (80 hp/s for the first second, 50 hp/s for 3s after)
  • Being blocked by barriers is not as much of an issue as it seems to be at first glance as long as you can refresh the heal-over-time effect.
  • Biotic grasp is a clear choice as long as some resource management is possible.

Valk vs Amp-it-up

  • Valk
    50 hp/s per target, 15s (750 hp/target total)
  • lucio crossfade with amp
    46.8 hp/s per target, 3s
  • During amp-it-up, Lucio’s healing aura only falls behind Valkyrie’s healing by about 3 hp/s
  • Taking availability and duration into account, Amp is competitive with Valk, but bear in mind one is an ultimate.

Valk vs Sound barrier

  • Valk
    50 hp/s per target, 15s (750 hp/target total)
  • barrier
    750 hp shields (same as valk) /target
  • Both ultimates provide the same amount of health. Sound barrier is capable of absorbing large bursts, but starts decaying immediately.

Valk vs Biotic Grasp

  • Valk
    50 hp/s per target, 15s (750 hp/target total)
  • biotic grasp
    80 hp/s while held, max 9 seconds (*720hp)
    50 hp/s (same as heal beam) for 3s (150hp)
  • Simply holding left click and spinning in place will allow moira to keep up with valkyrie.

Valk vs Orisa’s supercharger (just cos this is interesting too)

  • Valk
    30% dmg boost, 15s (450% over the duration)
  • Supercharger
    50% dmg boost, 16s (800% over the duration)
  • Supercharger is already almost double the effectiveness of Valk’s damage boost on a single target. On top of that, supercharger is able to boost all 6 team members versus mercy’s max of 5 (since she cant boost herself).

In conclusion:
as far as pure healing ability goes, Lucio and Moira are at least competitive when comparing individual aspects, and are usually objectively better outside of some niche cases when they have access to their full kit.

credits: (for the ability data)
Wikia and Gamepedia overwatch wikis

11 Likes

Some problems with your numbers. Moira’s 50hp/s HoT isn’t actually hp/s. It’s 50 hp over 3 seconds. Or 16.6hp/s.

More generally - while I agree Mercy has problems - multitarget throughput isn’t particularly comparable. e.g., Lucio does not have burst healing, while Ana has incredible burst healing. Both have their places and these are important factors aside from total healing done in a match.

14 Likes

You’re also ignoring the consistency of the healers. Nothing will compare to how consistent Mercy is. She’s not supposed to be the go-to pick for top healing, she’s supposed to be the go-to pick for consistent healing.

Consistent =/= bush healing output.

Lucio, Ana, Moira, and Zen to a degree all have healing blocked via barriers.

Lucio does not have the HPS that Mercy does, especially in the context of keeping an ally up or rapidly healing them so they can get back in the fight faster.

TL;DR: Mercy is fine and balanced finally.

This is a non-problem. Mercy has only been spoiled for so long by being both the best numbers healer and most consistent healer. Her reign for best number healer has ended, but even then she only just falls behind those that passed her after her nerf. She is far from weak.

4 Likes

Well, no she is not. She was balanced before the last nerf. Stats confirmed it, Blizzard devs posted saying it.

Latest nerf put her firmly as one of the worst characters in overwatch.

That being said, I don’t think the topic post’s comparisons are particularly apt.

13 Likes

Hahahaha proof?

I’ll get some for you-

Her winrate is the 2nd lowest in the game, at average of all ranks on PC this week.

In bronze, she is in the middle of the pack.

In silver, she only fell slightly to the bottom.

In gold, she’s at the same spot with Ana just under her.

In Plat and above, she is near the bottom of the barrel.

This is because there are now better picks over Mercy. This goes back to my post above, she is the most consistent healer, no longer the best healer.

She will always excel in the ranks that the others won’t, like Ana.

1 Like

It’s not exactly hard to find in the dev tracker when the devs post so little, but here you go:

They sledgehammered a 50% winrate character and predictably, as you yourself say, she’s now much lower.

10 Likes

And in return other supports have risen.

Do you want me to go back and fish what the Devs said about 35% Ironclad? Because that tops Mercy’s past nerf as well as her rework, because he was gutted a week after they talked about that.

Time to get with the program: not evertging the Devs say is the Bible truth.

The problem with people like you, is you won’t accept any evidence. Stats aren’t valid because they aren’t from blizzard. Oh Blizzard posted? they must be lying too!

Well what do you want me to say?

All evidence suggests Mercy is not balanced, and isn’t even close.

I’m going to trust that evidence over random forumer’s feelings.

Ironclad isn’t comparable because all stats suggested that was, in fact, overpowered.

12 Likes

Other supports were also buffed. They would’ve been balanced without the nerf to Mercy

4 Likes

No I accept evidence. You just have to back it up. You haven’t backed up your evidence, or even your main point.

The Devs literally called her rework a success but now you’re backing their claim when they say she’s hovering where you like her to be.

Meanwhile, you have yet to provide any evidence that she is UP. In that case, i did, but I also proved my point, she’s not supposed to be the top healer/support.

Or that she is, but just not at the level you want her to be. She’s only struggling in high ranks, but that’s because she’s supposed to be an entry level healer, not a hero you can onetrick up to GM.

Where did I say that it wasn’t?

I brought it up to prove that the Devs don’t always know what BS they spew from their mouths.

Look at the date on that post.

4 Likes

I never understood the consistency argument with Moira,Lucio and Zen. If you want to focus on healing you can never run out of healing on Moira quite easily, since her primary heal has a heal over time effect as well as the base aoe healing, add healing orbs to that (that can go through barriers) and her super fast ult charge that again goes through barriers. the only time you run out of healing on Moira if you prioritize healing is if you super comited to keeping someone alive through some burstier dmg.

As for Lucio,Zen or even Ana, saying they arent consistent healers is like saying Mercy isnt a consistent healer cause she has the choice to use dmg boost, ress or blaster instead of healing beam. Compared to say Zen who can discord,heal and deal dmg at the same time, Lucio who can heal,boop and deal dmg at the same time, Moira that can dmg and heal at the same time, and Ana who can dmg boost,heal,deal dmg,apply dmg reduction,CC, and anti heal at the same time.

Im not even sure how you would argue Zen and Lucio not being consistent healers? All you need to do is be in the general vicinity of Lucio and Zen orbs have the same delay when leaving LOS as Mercy beam except with bigger range.

4 Likes

I agree with zen and Lucio being consistent, but:

Ana can be inconsistent becaus of aiming her shots.
Moira can be inconsistent when she can’t refill fast enough.

Most people aren’t going hit every healing shot on Ana (the highest burst, but the lowest consistency of healing), while most people aren’t going to have perfect resource management throughout a match with Moira.

I can agree if you have to pick Moira or Mercy, Moira often is the better choise. Though it depends on who your other support is and what the team comp is like. Mercy can still work fine, but not at all times.

What the hell, what you wrote yourself above the last line shows Mercy is not excelling anywhere.

2 Likes

making it seen as if zen has huge healing output and not considering that aspect is already a flaw.
also zen acts as a fake shield for the main healer, as he is dive target nr1.
a lucio who is just on healing is useless. there is a reason he has a crossfade and his main point is speed.
there is no way when you have a rhein or chock point, you will still stay on healing.

also but can heal through shields and lucio’s ultimate is even blocked by them.

But then you say lucios healing aura pulls ahead the moment you have 3 injured teammates in the radius. Your math above shows this is incorrect.

is 50 heals over 3 seconds, not 50 hps

Again, incorrect.

Supercharger can be killed and does not have the ability to switch between healing and damage.

1 Like

Mercy is a main healer though, right? So compare her to main healers and not off-healers. In fact let’s do just that.
First off, what is the difference between a main healer and off-healer? An off-healer provides enough healing to heal up squishies but not to keep to keep up a tank; a main healer puts out enough healing to heal up a tank in a reasonable amount of time. So let’s do some math. How long does it take each main healer to heal 400 health?
Ana does 75 per shot with each shot taking 0.8 seconds, plus 100 burst heal and 50% healing for 4 seconds with nade. Ana takes 2.6 seconds with nade and 4.26 without.
Moira does 80hps with her spray and 50 healing over 3 seconds, plus 75hps with orb (up to 300 but it will probably fly away before depleted). Moira can heal 400hp in 5 seconds with only spray, with orb only lasting for 1 second before flying away that’s 3.06 seconds and in a perfect world where orb sticks around it will take 2.58 seconds.
Now let’s look at Mercy. She gets no burst heal and only does 50hps. Mercy takes 8 seconds to heal 400hp.
Does that put Mercy in line with the other main healers assuming their job is too heal up tanks? Not really.
Does Mercy provide more healing than off-healers? Yes. But what do off-healers offer a team? Defensive ults. Does Mercy have a defensive ult? Definitely not.
So where does Mercy stand? Is she a main healer or not? That’s what wrong with Mercy right now. She doesnt provide enough healing to be picked over Ana as main healer and she doesnt provide a defensive ult to be played over an off-healer. So where truly does Mercy fit? She is not balanced either way.

6 Likes

Consistent healing, just like consistent damage will NEVER out-rank burst. If this is the “best” patch. Then I guess everyone wants snipers and Doomfist to dominate the game and for everyone to main them. Maybe a Zarya or Rein for extra coverage, but burst damage and healing is so powerful that consistent damage is getting useless unless they have gimmicks in order to help themselves. Sombra is a good example.

So you rather have a consistent healer like Mercy fail to do her job because of her inability to heal consistently, because of all the other Supports need to be better than her because they are harder than her.

Brig. Lucio. Moira. Sound familiar? Or how about how powerful Anti-nade is? It’s just fake news. Look at the stats, because they don’t lie. A MAIN HEALER has a worse win rate than Lucio. Who has the ability to speed boost and is an off-healer. Congrats on killing a character, expect a higher percent of pistol Mercy because that’s the only way she can make an effect in a fight anymore.

So can Mercy.

2 Likes

I didnt say Zen has a huge healing output (although can we really argue that about Mercy since she cant even outheal Monkeys tickle dmg anymore), the person argued that Mercy is the only consistent healer which simply isnt true.

Same goes for Lucio speed boost, the fact that you want to use speed boost on Lucio in certain spots in times of the game doesnt make his healing any less consistent than the fact that Mercy can use dmg boost or blaster makes her any less consistent. Hell, Lucio aura doesnt stop unless hes dead or hacked, any type of CC wont stop his heal, which would arguably make him more consistent with heals than Mercy.

Neither of those have anything to do with the character being a consistent healer, neither is that their only way of healing. Ana has nade and nano for burst/aoe healng and Moira has orb/coalescence, for more aoe healing. Can Moira just spam dmg orbs and use ult to get picks instead of healing? Sure, Mercy can hold down dmg boost on Phara for the entire match, or whip out her blaster as well.

Can Ana miss all of her healing shots? I mean theoretically yes, but you can just point blank spam heal your tanks and youll still be pumping out high consistent healing, higher than Zen,Lucio or Mercy can ever hope to, not to mention Anas hitbox on allies is extremely generous (hell scoped shots take up 80% of the screen as an acceptable hitbox). We can say Ana is inconsistent with healing small/mobile targets compared to the rest of the healer class, and thats really kind of it.