Mercy with old rez would of caused more diversity

What is? You added stuff. Yes ults should be able to be counter able. They shouldn’t be I win buttons.
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Read above. No wonder, that we end up with stacks - it’s only way to ensure, that ult won’t be stopped with randomly thrown flashbang or other equally random thing.

And yes, they should be “I win” button, which is countered by similar response from other team, also in form of ult. Otherwise there is no point of charging them up.

Ults should be counterable with proper CD usage, which can usually be avoided if you pay attention before using it. For example, Soldier’s ult is completely countered by barriers, but waiting until the barrier is broken and/or flanking still makes it effective. Same with most of the ults; they have counters in the form of abilities (often CC), but those same abilities have recharge time and aim/range requirements that make it easy to use an ult with full value if timed right. Mercy’s ult had some issues with this, as well as either getting completely countered or not touched at all.

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Well, no wonder we are running out of characters, that can be reliable at saving team.

Luckily, ult stack still allows to avoid this non-sense and get things done, without being nullified by regular abilities.

Once again I utterly agree! But invulnerability is what made people despise it.

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Try again.

You even mention it in the next sentence.

Well, duh. Imagine countering something that was meant to counter something. It happens all the time. It’s not subtle either.

For example:

Team 1 Zarya: Uses Graviton Surge and captures half of Team 2.
Team 2 Zenyatta: Uses Transcendence to counter it.
Team 1 Ana: Throws a Biotic Grenade at captured Team 2 players to counter Transcendence.
Team 2 D.Va: DMs Ana’s Biotic Grenade.

Biotic Grenade, which was the counterplay to the counterplay to Graviton Surge, was counterplayed by Defense Matrix. D.Va counterplayed the counterplay to counterplay.

And then… that brings me back around to these points:

A team under the effects of Transcendence isn’t just going to let the enemy McCree Deadeye all of them if they have something to say about it. Likewise, a freshly-revived team isn’t just going to let the enemy McCree Deadeye all of them if they have something to say about it. The difference is that the team under the effects of Transcendence actually can say something about it. If you’re in position and mobile, you have a chance of defending against it. You’re not going to block Deadeye if you’re out of position and the one-shots start coming before anyone can put up a shield.

For the same reason that the enemy team should have to fight through a Transcendence or Sound Barrier, or any ultimate for that matter.

For the same reason that the enemy should have to fight through the same number of revived players post-rework on average; because it’s a game mechanic.

The developers themselves have recently stated that you don’t get to decide how the enemy team plays. It’s a PvP game.

You’ve gone from “Mass-Resurrect has no counterplay” to “Mass-Resurrect is uniquely bad because I arbitrarily think it is”.

Lucio would like a word.

I keep seeing people say this, and it always seems to come down to “It’s unhealthy because I dislike it.”

If you’re going to try to argue about something objective such as whether or not an ability is healthy for the game, you’ll have to use definitive reinforcement for that position. I’ll give you a reason why it was healthy: It was one of the few abilities that could counter and discourage mindless ultimate spam.

And now you have struck upon the core of your entire argument. You are saying that something doesn’t feel good to play against.

Overwatch is a PvP game. This is not Hello Kitty. The enemy team isn’t supposed to be fun to play against. Dying isn’t fun. If the enemy team was fun to play against, then dying would be impossible, and the game would be rather bland because if there is no death, there are no kills.

Speaking of my megapost, have an excerpt from it:

How something on the enemy team felt to play against isn’t a valid argument in a PvP game.

It’s pretty clear that you’re running out of ideas when you fall back on… restating a broad opinion without providing supporting evidence for it.

Except you were not.

The stated reasons for the rework were as follows:

  • Resurrect was “unfun to play against”.
  • “Hide and rez”.

What you were “explaining” when I responded:

  • “Resurrect has no counterplay”.

That’s a blatant lie. If you really believed that, you would not have replied in the first place. There’s no need to “explain why Mercy was reworked” if the people you are talking to “don’t need convincing”.

When in doubt, change the subject. I’ll bite.

It’s funny, actually, that you say that. You know it to be false. Here’s a quote from your reply to my megapost:

But somehow, an ultimate with no weaknesses is more “skillful” than one with weaknesses.

No, quite simply, you lack the understanding. You have provided hardly any defense against the counterpoints I have made and instead insisted upon restating your misinformed or dishonest position.

You are using a myth as a reason to call others uneducated. We call that irony. Hypocrisy, even.

Let’s wrap things up. Why don’t you respond to these so I know exactly where you stand:

Who’s “they”?

All of the Mercy mains who don’t like the current state of Mercy except me?

You know I identify with “them”, right? You might as well come out and say that about me. At which point… well, I’d just sling this in your face:

No, the tactics changed from both of those early on to the last one today, because Valkyrie is no longer overpowered ever since they removed Mercy’s ultimate from it.

No, this was “Mercy E-rez will always render Mercy’s kit imbalanced, whether OP or UP, and it will always feel horrible to use with a cast time.”

Literally have never seen that one before. The general consensus is that you use Mercy for Resurrect, which has been a problem for her entire existence.

That one is reaching, and didn’t really pick up much traction.

This is true.

If you need to counter ultimate spam, you have two options: Lucio and Zenyatta. That’s it. Lucio and Zenyatta synergize very well with some compositions (both Lucio and Zenyatta in Dive), but are flaming garbage in others (Zenyatta in Double Barrier meta, Lucio in Bunker). Adding another healer with a defensive ultimate allows for more diversity in team compositions because you aren’t restricted to just Lucio or Zenyatta if you need to counter ultimate spam. Bonus points when you consider that Mercy is more of a generalist and is extremely versatile, making her an ideal candidate for wildcard compositions.

Side arguments change based upon new information, new opportunities, and new ideas. That’s a good thing, as you know. People don’t use “Mercy is overpowered” as a reason to support a rework/revert today because… Mercy isn’t overpowered anymore. It’s an outdated argument.

The core argument has remained the same though: Mercy isn’t fun to play. This argument has stood since the rework and is the source of the complaints. Yes, there will be some variations on the specifics of what parts aren’t fun from time to time as different players come and go on the forums while delivering feedback, but the core message is the same. It’s why threads complaining about Mercy are still emerging more than two years later. It’s why I’m still getting notifications of “likes” on my megapost to this day.

The arguments tend to default to that mechanic because we know for a fact that said mechanic works. It’s the “tried and true” solution. Most people aren’t going to tread into dangerous waters when they have solid ground to stand upon.

There’s a reason that the 40 of us Mercy mains including yourself voting on that megapost proposal yielded modifications to mass-Resurrect rather than an entirely new and radical ultimate, or an iteration of something that the majority of the participants saw as a failed project. It was safe, satisfying, and easy to implement. It just makes sense.

The reason nobody pushed for these changes is simple: Because spraying Febreze on a dumpster fire doesn’t make it the dumpster fire go away. I would not be remotely near satisfied with those changes, because they only address one of… 6+ concerns? The last two suggestions I honestly could not care less about.

  • Mercy still has an ult on a cooldown.
  • Said ability interrupts and contradicts Mercy’s mobility-based gameplay.
  • Said ability is not bound to the player’s performance, and is a crutch when playing well and a participation award when playing poorly.
  • Valkyrie pushes the player away from the action rather than into it.
  • The necessity for positioning skills goes out the window in Valkyrie.
  • GA Discipline becomes useless in Valkyrie.
  • The knowledge and appeal of knowing that your long-term decisions matter is still absent.

I could go on.

[Citation needed]

And you know what? Even if he has said that, and I missed it somewhere, that’s all the more reason to fight against it.

After all, in a game, it’s not about the victory; it’s about the challenge.


Depends from who you ask. In competitive, it’s all about victory.

People refuse to even try to work with Valkyrie, because it gives you headache of worrying about ults(one AoE ult covers whole team), while Valkyrie offers absolutely nothing as countermeasure to that scenario. Individual players are unlikely to even notice it being used, it’s just how “strong” it is.

Compared to Transcendence, for example, which is also AoE ult, but can save teammates from most downsides of grouping up. Or to Coalescence, which makes killing teammates by normal damage quite difficult.

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It’s not even something to fix like it was just a way of saying “make people notice it less”

I have a feeling old versions of heroes will be back in a form of a gamemode for arcade or it’s own card

In OWL thus far she has been picked to pocket a Pharah with heals/damage boost

Thus far with a pickrate of… less than 1%?

Idk don’t give me stats I don’t care.

It should be no surprise she had a much better pickrate when it was instant, and never regained that when the cast time was added.

The only reason people ever picked her was because revive was strong, now it’s not strong there’s no reason to pick her. Damage boost is dreadful, and her healing is even worst.

Doubt it’s even possible. People notice unique abilities, unless those are worthless.

Devs already tried it with Roadhog once - they nerfed his hook combo by nerfing his damage. He then went below ground in terms of usefulness, so they had to give him ability, that allows tank without shield to tank’s ult and survive.

Turns out that making certain abilities team-reliant immediately drops it into useless area. If you make whole hero out of such abilities, you get a mess.

Yeah, having a healer combo that can both multi rez and literally make people unkillable would create so much diversity and fun…

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Interesting how we had that as a possibility for 5 seasons, but the meta almost always favored doubling up of the “unkillable” ultimates or going with one of them and a “go bash their faces in” ultimate rather than what you are suggesting.

It’s almost as if Resurrect wasn’t nearly as oppressive as you are suggesting… :thinking:


Mass rez can never be balanced. Mass rez will never come back. Stop wasting your life.

I’d take a D-tier ability that feels good to use over what we have now.


It’s time to move on with your life. You’d have as much success picketing for the return of horse drawn carriages and a nationwide ban on automobiles.


Leave the “deciding how to live my life” to me.

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The thing is, I hate to describe it like this but Valkyrie truly is Braindead. The only thinking is when to Damage boost, or even pull out blaster.

I made a thread to give Prioritization to Valkyrie. It makes no sense for a Beam connected target to receive the same healing as a chained adjacent ally. Also having 2-5 or even a single rez on a faster animation would be good. Lots of people say it’s unnecessary but It wont break the game at all. I never called for Instant rez. I just said to take off animation time.
Instead of 1.75 it can be 1 second.

If you don’t want other people’s opinions, I’d stay off of internet forums.

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First, I’m okay with other people’s opinions, so long as they don’t stray from their realm of jurisdiction. Once they try to reach beyond that, I have every justification to ignore it. I’d hate to break it to you, but you don’t get to tell other people what to do with their time.

Second, your accusation is ironic when you consider that you were just telling me to stop voicing my opinion:

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