I agree, mercy could ultimately be balanced with res, it’s just going to take some serious gutting of other parts of her kit. Ana’s a perfect example of a hero that has amazing utility and is balanced around it. Needless to say everyone still cries about the balance decisions intended for her.
June 28th, 2017:
Mercy
520 damage = 520 charge.
11905 healing = 9524 charge (4/5 CR).
593 damage amplified = 2569.67 damage done by boosted target = 1927.25 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14971.25.
Charge requirement: 1625.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.21 ultimates/game.
Ana:
3668 damage = 3668 charge.
8791 healing = 8791 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15459.
Charge requirement: 1650.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.37 ultimates/game.
Lucio:
7026 damage = 7026 charge.
10322 healing = 13074.43 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23100.53.
Charge requirement: 2625.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.80 ultimates/game.
August 12th, 2017:
Mercy:
521 damage = 521 charge.
11912 healing = 9529.6 charge (4/5 CR).
542 damage amplified = 2348.67 damage done by boosted target = 1761.50 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14812.1.
Charge requirement: 1625.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.12 ultimates/game.
Ana:
3629 damage = 3629 charge.
8789 healing = 8789 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15418.
Charge requirement: 1650.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.34 ultimates/game.
Lucio:
6988 damage = 6988 charge.
10519 healing = 13324.07 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23312.07.
Charge requirement: 2625.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.88 ultimates/game.
Sources:
Overwatch Forums
Overwatch Forums
There are my statistics.
That has actually been in the game since forever; it was just amplified through the rework. As a drawback, using the bunnyhop now counts as part of GA’s use, delaying the cooldown. Its buff was compensated by a longer effective cooldown.
She’s always had the mobility she needs to get to her targets. You’re grasping at straws now.
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And yet you still fail to mention lucio was actually healing more on average than Mercy as his aoe was huge enough to constantly be healing, ontop of doing damage and the potential to get massive ult charge spikes with booping people off maps.
Mercy on the other hand was played as a pocket healer usually doubled with Ana pre nade and post nade was doubled with lucio. So the majority of healing was still left to the second support.
Your statistics are comparing optimal situations. POTENTIALS. that just aren’t applicable in most scenario’s. Not to mention they’re figures you yourself calculated with a bias. The enemy isn’t just going to stand there and take damage for dps to charge ults that fast. Your tanks can very well soak up trash damage so you can charge your ult for the next team fight. People STILL do this tactic.
Bunny hop? In the game forever? The mechanic that through mercy’s mobility into overdrive and made her perfect for surviving dive when it was originally ran with lucio because mercy didn’t have bunny hop. What? She’s only had it since her rework, and the first version of it was a bug that came with her rework. You’re actually just making things up now to continue arguing.
She’s always had the mobility, she didn’t have the bunny hop mechanic that added to her survivability being able to utilize that original mobility even better. I’m not grasping at straw’s, you’re fighting strawmen.
The statistics state that this sentence is blatantly false.
Those are the averages.
Those were averages taken from Overbuff. 
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Bias. And people called you on it right away causing you to use stats from overbuff, that you still intentionally modified to suit your agenda.
I’m pretty sure this time frame was also at the height of Mercy’s huge sr exploit and you fully admit too the most obvious part
There are plenty more times you would use beat drop in a game compared to mass res
Starting with theoretical numbers isn’t bias. Numbers don’t lie.
And how might I have “modified it to suit my agenda”?
I used averages to prove a point. That data just so happens to prove your current assertions incorrect.
You must have played a miserable Mercy if you think that…
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I would agree in specific situations, this not being one of them. Potentially Ana should out heal everybody, yet she doesn’t. There’s a reason we don’t go off of theory for everything, as it’s not always true when put to practice.
Considering elim’s is only a measure of last hits and maybe? assits at the time, which also give charge in their own respect (i actually forget what patch that was) It’s already calculated in the damage of a hero. There is no reason to subtract elims and you’ve missed assists completely.
I can’t even lie, i’m terrible with her. Too mind numbing. Once you learn how to bunny hop you’re basically just doing that the entire game making sure you don’t end up in the enemies backline. Before I honestly would say it was worse, Mercy is now at least somewhat engaging.
I often read in the posts “Mercy has no weakness” - that was caused by the rework. She was a single target healer before the rework. AOE healing was her weakness, making Ana/Lucio a better pick in many comps. Valkyrie removed that weakness. That´s why she is a better pick right now. I´d prefer a revert to Mass Rez that gets tweaked to allow counterplay, or change Valkyrie to single target beam again that is stronger so she has AOE heal as a weakness again, making Ana/Moira more viable in tank heavy comps.
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That and her lack of utility, she actually was a pure healer pre rework. Now she’s got res on e on top of damage boost which wasn’t that bad for her niche to begin with when pocketing phara/widow and more recently mccree and hanzo
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I gotta admit Mercy is just not my hero. I play a lot of supports but I usually avoid Mercy if I can help it just because how dependent I feel on my team to actually do something.
That said this nerf is stupid imo. It wasn’t done because people couldn’t die, or that her pocketed heals were too OP (other than hard to hit targets like Phara). No this nerf was done just to hurt pick rates, a very stupid reason to adjust a character imo.
A character can be popular for no valid in game reason, just as a character can be unpopular due to their model, lore or some other non balance related reason. Using pick rates as the only guide to buffs and nerfs has always been one of the dumber things Blizzard does about OW.
Yes it can point you in the direction of an OP hero, but it doesn’t really give you any details. Hence the OP Hanzo getting a stupid lunge nerf when it’s the least important aspect of his Kit being broken right now.
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Exactly. I really liked having that “pure healer” niche with her and I guess it´d be healthy for the game if she got it back.
That says that theoretical numbers might not necessarily be the best model for reality. It does not mean that using the argument is biased, especially when the person presenting the numbers refined the point with real averages.
This is totally beside the point, as it is unrelated to my previous comparison between Mercy, Lucio, and Ana, but I’ll humor you for this.
There was no subtracting of eliminations. There was subtracting of 200 damage for every kill a hero got with their ultimate, as ultimates cannot be charged while they are active.
Assists don’t count towards ultimate charge on any hero. The only stats that count towards ultimate charge are damage and healing. The exception to this is Mercy, who also has damage boost as a source of charge.
I’m not going to debate this now, as I’m already working on a megapost that explains why this assertion is incorrect.
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mercy is a direct, powerful heal and on demand rez. moira is a weakish spray heal/hot, and orbs that are only minimally controllable and require some level of awareness and cooperation from your teammates to use.
its a fair tradeoff.
5 charges of rez during rez ult. Must use them individually, one by one, and each has a cast time. Lucky if you get one off. Great if you get two or three. Godlike mercy or bad opponents if you get four or five.
Valk gets moved to E on a 30 second cooldown. AOE healing effectiveness and valk duration reduced to compensate for it not being an ult anymore.
I could get behind this if Valkyrie had a much shorter cooldown and duration. 15 seconds of spectator mode is boring as hell, but 3-4 seconds of Valkyrie could be a nice resource to draw upon in a pinch. Put that behind a 12-15 second cooldown, and you have a decent E ability.
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sure, the details can be worked out with time, but the goal is to get the current individual rez mechanic transformed into a rez ult with multiple charges while still not reviving instant or mass rez.
i honestly think cutting mercy healing is the worst possible way to fix what is a problem caused by having rez as a cooldown.
Tbh, before the rework I did actually think about what im going to do next. Dying was the worst possible event that could happen if youve been playing Mercy back then.
No bunny hopping meant less movement, less possibilitys to escape potential danger
Its quite confusing and very ironic but Mercy isnt more engaging than before. You can do a lot more with her than before. It can be hella fun bunny hopping 24/7 but its not enaging. It does - in fact - cripple her skill ceiling and therefore makes it less engaging
Dying is less punishing
Its easier to survive
Ult management is less (is not) important (anymore)
“You have to take care because you can only rezz one person every 30 seconds, you might waste rezz” is simply not true. If your Maintank is dead you rezz Maintank. If your other Healer is dead you rezz other Healer. If one DPS is dead (the other alive) and someone else is dead you rezz that other guy, there is one DPS left to do damage no need for the other one. If both DPS are down you rezz the one whith less mobility. If only one person is dead you rezz that one person. Its dead simple, no gamesense required
Not to mention, her ult is the exact opposite of “engaging”. Those “Im hitting the sky box while drinking some tea and hold down LMB”-memes arent memes, thats actual Valk gameplay
You can literally just go behind a wall and only hold down LMB/RMB the whole Valk duration without losing any impact
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I don’t necessarily like the cast time, but that build is a hell of a lot more tolerable from a gameplay perspective than the current version.
Agreed.
This parody of the developer update by RosenAria does a good job of showing that.
I die laughing every time I watch the first 30 seconds.
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Using theoretical wasn’t the bias, using the method you drew to calculate the average ult charge over the amount of times ultimate is actually used while intentionally or not leaving out important statistics that add to it is, however. If you didn’t intentionally mean for it to be skewed, then it wasn’t done with a bias but is still faulty at best.
Okay, if that is really what you meant, and it seems to be considering i misread it the first time, that still begs the question as to why you skewed the results by guessing how many kills per ult.
At any rate, none of this matters because we’re circling around hypotheticals and not results when put to practice. When put to practice, Lucio had more times to use beat drop then mercy’s mass res. If we really go by your hypothetical, Mercy was mas ressing every 30 seconds, the same time frame she currently uses her E. That has simply never been the case.
This was the original point and your hypothetical statistics certainly don’t disprove it. In one sentence you’re saying
The next is completely contradictory with
It can’t be both. Either she has the same amount of ress’ or she doesn’t for better or worse.
That should be interesting and not met with any backlash. Mercy is certainly a lot more forgiving now with the inclusion of bunny hoping, that doesn’t make her less engaging in the slightest though.
For the record, if you skewed the results with imaginary numbers based on eliminations when damage already calculates it, the right thing to do is be consistent and include assists as well. I did in fact say assists give charge in their own respect, this was in context to your logic.