Just because perfection is probably impossible doesn’t mean it can’t get better.
Devs should be heading in that direction, and trying everything that seems like it might work.
As for the Mei part. That’s more of a fringe benefit.
The main part is that by removing a major cause of highly durable compositions, which allows for more value to get pumped into Tanks, without causing a highly durable composition.
Yeah but your overall plan relies on that perfection
You need a lot of.dps players to start playing tank to not only make up for the “collateral damage” players who prefer the old tanks but also to at the very minimum the count of tank players
Even Forcing dive in as the meta, is not going to increase the tank player count
Ah, thats the trick. You’re only seeing the first two steps.
Thanks for making one of your usual threads.
I’ve been wanting literally the exact sort of changes which were presented on experimental ever since 2-2-2 went live.
You have my full support (without dissecting things) for once.
If we are trying to get “as close as perfect as possible” why is part of your plan to make a composition dominant?
There are two parts of the issue about tanks, one about which tanks are meta (people hate everything thats not dive)
And the other one is the fact that all the tanks are unplayable but two
Which is the bigger issue here?
Clearly you think the first
Personally i find that the second is the issue
I feel like people would be more likely to play tank, if all tanks were reasonably viable, inestead of if they were forced into playing the more “fun” (according to the mayority) tanks every match, or lose because that creates burnout, people can only play the same thing for so long, even i would get burned out after beeing forced to play the same char over and over and over again every match, even if it was my favorite, while the other would allow for reasonable space for flexing, even if one comp is slightly better overall.
One focuses on a portion of the playerbase (the dive enjoyers) while the other tries to make it so everything is playable.
That’s less of a “more tanks users” thing.
And more of a “I don’t think devs have the systems needed to deal with low barriers yet”.
OW2 PVP, Low Barrier problems
So it’s easier to make Orisa and Sigma barriers more similar to Rein. And some Winston, because of the Dive at high tier. Which gives Plat and below a lot of SingleBarrier Tank options to work with.
(Which is LONG overdue for Plat and below)
For high tier, the reason for Dive, is because you want to avoid DoubleBarrier Rush. Which leaves pretty much the only close range comp being Dive.
That said, again for high tier, I think it’s a lost cause to get them to play more than 8-10 heroes for a given patch, once the meta has been “solved”.
For that you’d need something that’s equivalent to a ban system.
Pick system, instead of Bans
Yep, but they would have to do a complete rework, she is basically a better hog like this.
This would lower ques and it would be better for the game
I think its possible
There was a month or two where it happend, that while there was a stronger comp everything was moderately playable
Eh if they buffed ori and sigma a lil bit and reverted the rein nerfs it would be fine
Not really. “We don’t know what the meta is, so try everything” isn’t a “solved” meta.
I can assure you, if they went back to that exact same patch, it would be +90% Tank usage on Sigma/Ball
I meant to say revert his buffs but i guess you understood what i meant
And as long as rein can just brainlessly bumrush them and they have no answer to it, rein will by far be the best tank for plat and below.
Only really experienced orisa and sigma players can handle fighting reins,
There is also the issue of blocking his ultimate, which both cannot do
Id be okay with other buffs to rein, just not those,…
One of my ideas was a passive, that whenever rein swings his hammer, he gets a bit of damage resist, for like 2-3s then the passive goes on a cooldown
It wouldnt be more damage, but its a skillful way to let rein get away with swinging more often
Im sure you’ve experienced going for a swing and losing like your hp suddenly
Honestly i think orisa can handle rein decently, sigma struggles but he can
The issue becomes when zarya is there too,
I totally agree that this should stay with some slight changes I think Mei has always been such a great character for tank with her unique style of protection creating natural cover to help teams move is huge in the experimental I’ve had a lot of fun playing her while I feel her right click hits a little to hard I think it can still work along with another ability to provide more team protection. A team cyro to provide immunity on a large cd like 20 seconds the player cyro’d will have control of when to leave like mei but i feel this will be huge in helping the team. Say you run Mei/Rien a comp I’ve found to be good in experimental this would allow a cleanse and heal effect for your Rien if he get hit by Anas nade Mei can freeze to cleanse and heal a little bit for Rien to continue pushing or a higher skill play is to block key ults like shatter if you have a Rien who is about to loose shield Mei can freeze him once he looses it to block the enemy shatter huge plays like this can make Mei a A-B tier tank with a skill-cap and general fun playstyle. I hope this idea gets noticed and implemented as I believe this could be the next big idea to make Mei tank a reality
A lot of it’s just “Does this Tank have enough barriers for a lot of poke damage”.
That said, I have been working on some brawler aspect ideas.
Im not sure…realistically any smart orisa player would just wait until fortify is about to end to use the energy blade.
at the very least, they should increase reins ult charge by 5-10% to compensate for the damage buff so he doesnt get shatter as often.
i think orisa could use a barrier cooldown reduction, not a barrier HP Buff
if we go the CD reduction, it would make her more mobile.
also what do you think about flying sigma? i thought the idea was really funny, but i feel like it could work provided you gave him a new right clikc and maybe buffed kinetic grasp a bit
Yup. Agreed.
I mean, it works. But I’d prefer Sigma be a main tank. And not another offtank.
“Orisa or Rein or Lose”, isn’t much better than “Rein or Lose”
What about a flying main tank?
People have a hard enough time killing Pharah, as is, for the lower half of the ELOs…
personally i want soldier as a support lol…
Actually i want teh ability to pick a number of DSP in other roles but also in their original role… not sure if they can make that big of a change for this though but would be an intresting concept to try…
i.e mei can be played either as a tank or a dps but not both obviously and soldier can be palyter as a support or dps but not both…
so shared heros…
What makes Mei a good tank is wall. The current CD is too high to work. She would need the recent nerfs reverted. Lower wall CD, faster freeze. Maybe to make it less annoying make freeze variable so the time to freeze is longer when piercing. So direct target freezes faster, pierced targets slower.
Her cryo and right click have nothing to do with her tanking ability. Let’s be clear on that. Other than right click applying a threat level. Her wall can zone areas and control space, and her freeze provides cc (cc is historically a tanking ability; why some dps/supports have cc is beyond me).
If I were to change anything it would be when freeze is used on shields it makes the shields take more damage from other sources. Kind of like a shield debuff.
i imagined echo like that… like strafe bombing orissa barrier from above… or something…
that could kinda work… i think… like maybe even make it so she cant take cover behind them herself somehow… that way she has to dodge and evade and fly around more… while her team can move using the barriers… like maybe she deploys 3 in a line then they activate in sequence. one after another