Megathread part 4.1 (oct 2018) beam buff not enough!

Oh my ! Just a minute ago i made a topic asking if Megatheads will be on this new forums! I didnt see this one exist till now because im still getting used to the interface clutter!

Yaaaay!

I’ll try to edit mine later since it is pretty lenghty ;;

She will get a full rework that makes her more viable on attack. Mark my words I’ll remind you when the Developer Update goes live!

Both of her Ults feel sluggish to use.
Her right click useless.
Shield very useless most of the time.
Turrets easily counterable with 20IQ dont let it get charge.

It’s laughable how some think she just needs minor changes… She will get new abilities!

OR be a Healer…

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They have the unique characteristic of being the only ultimate that is permanent until the enemy team destroys it (or the charges are expended, in TP case). But I agree with you on this point. Which is why I suggested that she would be able to plant a “seed” of her ultimate before she earns it, and when its charged, it activates.

Its possible to balance that by either making the seed frail (but silent) and if it gets destroyed, she lose any ult charge she gathered thus far. Or maybe, requiring her to get more ult charge to activate a previously-planted seed, while if you wait to place it after the charge, it charges faster.

Energy Ball is a zoning tool, not a damage tool. Its also the only spammable ability in the game that ignore shields, making her good at chipping and dealing with Orisa and Reinhardt comps.

She is not a tank. If she gets as much utility from her shield as a tank, she is overpowered. Its still extremely useful for some clutch defenses, or to help her team to push through a choke while saving your tank’s shield and running full speed ahead.

I think you are confusing her turrets with her Photon Projector/microwave. But yeah, Symmetra worst enemy is teamwork. If they focus fire as soon as she appear, she have zero chance to do anything. This is why she will probably not see OWL time before her buff.

As someone that defends minor changes to her above a total rework, I think the most impactful Symmetra issue right now is not within her kit. Is because people chose her as a “throw hero”, and thus, when those people give up on the game, they pick her to signal “I gave up on winning”. And that hurts when someone want to honestly play Symmetra to win, because this leads the community to think the Symmetra pick was a throw pick.

IMO, unless Symmetra gets Valkyrie 1.0 levels of broken, no matter how much they buff her, she will still be seen as a throw pick.

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Technically, the Sym rework is already a Mercy rework but in reverse. Mercy had her ultimate changed to an ability to make room for a new ultimate, whereas Sym had her ability moved to an ultimate that made room for a new abiltiy whilst not considering that having 2 ultimates would increase the clutter.

Honestly, the rework seemed to just half of her kit inaccessible.

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The rework was nothing but good for her in terms of viability and flexibility. having 2 ultimates does not make her kit cluttered, it’s very clear when and where to use either ultimate, and neither interfere with her playstyle

She didn’t lose traction in pro play because the rework made her “worse”, she lost her place because a cheese strat (that Symmetra frankly played little part in) was eliminated with the rework.

If you actually look at the rework, none of it was negative to her effectiveness.

  • Raw range increase
  • Cooldown decreased on Sentries as well as maximum held increased
  • A new ability with arguably more impact than 25 Photon Shields (albeit requires skill to use)
  • Ultimate HP and surviveability increased greatly
  • Shield Generator given as a better option in certain scenarios than teleporter greatly increasing overall value

I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat myself, Symmetra’s kit is actually very powerful and impactful. the problem is it’s both very inconsistent, and relies on the cooperation of a playerbase that generally percieves her as a troll hero

Both of those issues CAN be solved with adjustment-style buffs.

Increase her consistency in her abilities with cooldown, cast, speed, and number based buffs and the community perception of her power as a hero will rise just because she has the word “buffed” slapped on her forehead

Her kit has everything it needs to be effective in this game, it really does, but she needs to feel better to both the players using her and the allies with her on their team.

A rework. is. not. necessary

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I think I’ve said this to death, but Photon Barrier needs to go if not get seriously buffed.

The rest of her kit needs buffs and QoL, but the pancake isn’t a good support ability. Unless you have two charges like Junkrat’s mines or a much lower cooldown for 1, she won’t have any consistent support outside of her ultimate.

Barrier healing, decaying shields, damaging reducing buffs, any of these thing and on a cooldown would be miles better.

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Like I said, consistency is the problem here. PB is actually a really good support ability, but 10 seconds is painfully long

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Was going to post the edited version when I got off work but guess it’s already been posted lol

ignore my other post I’m confused. Was comparing to the edited version I didn’t post. Long day at work to say the least ._.

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She IS viable on attack though, that’s the thing. Especially when it comes to Payload maps.
The main problem with Symm is that people on her team doesn’t know how to work around her in these situations, since most players avoids learning to play her because of the community stigma.

Both of her ult is a perfect tool for a team with good synergy and can even act as a bait to force a 6v5 on some maps. The 75 extra health helps out much more than you think.

Her right click passes through shields and does *125(thx Nibelung) damage fully charged, and can kill a Tracer instantly when comboed with a quick melee. It’s an amazing weapon when it comes to fighting it out at choke points.

PB is a bit underpowered right now, but it’s still useful when your team goes for a push. Its 1000 health also helps extending your tank’s shields against hitscans or Torb turrets, and it’s always satisfying to murder a cocky pharah who ults too close to the ground with a perfectly timed PB.

The turrets can be destroyed easily, but can still helps in a team fight and can finish off or at the very least denies the heal an enemy gets from health packs a lil bit. And whether it’s eventually destroyed or not, the measly damage it does helps build Symm’s ult faster.

And by “charge” i assume you meant her M1? Yeah, i guess killing her quickly before it charges to level 3 is what you’re supposed to do.
A good team won’t just let their support be killed so easily though.

All in all, she’s very strong in a team fight and in chokes because that’s what the devs built her for. Carry her, and she’ll carry you.
The only thing she needs right now is indeed just some buff to her kit, and then she’ll be all set. All the minor changes suggested by OP and other forum goers here are pretty much spot on.

And there’s just no need to change her into a healer, because frankly i don’t think most Symm players would want her to be one. I personally would rather we have another builder who focuses on healing instead.

125, actually. Its one of the two non-ultimate abilities that deal more than 120 base damage. The other one that also deal 125 is Hanzo full power primary fire.

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Primary Fire

  • Charge 1 DPS increased to 40
  • Charge 3 DPS reduced to 80
  • Reload time reduced to 1 second (from 1.8)

Energy Orb (Ability Rework)

  • Now a hero ability on a 2 second cooldown
    • No longer requires ammo to use
  • Charge speed increased by 50%
    • Maximum charge required to use ability
  • Damage reduced to 75
  • Travel Speed increased by 100%
  • Grants Symmetra 1 level of weapon charge for every target hit
    • Weapon charge still depletes at regular rate

Sentry Turrets

  • DPS increased to 35
  • Cast time reduced by 0.4 seconds
    • Cast slowdown reduced by 50%
  • Cooldown reduced to 8 seconds

Photon Barrier

  • Size increased by 25%
  • Cooldown reduced to 9 seconds
  • Barrier now slows down when fired at
    • Barrier will gradually slow on it’s own at a rate of 20% per second
    • when reaching a halt Barrier will remain active for 6 seconds before vanishing
  • Barrier HP reduced to 500

Ultimates

  • HP increased to 500 (50hp/450 Shield)

Shield Generator

  • range increased by 10 meters

What do you think? The driving goal here was consistency.
-Weapon DPS is more consistent across charge levels (Also having a higher minimum will help her on attack)
-Reload is faster and Orbs no longer take ammo so Symmetra won’t have nearly as much downtime
-Energy Orbs are MUCH more reliable at landing shots and no longer have any sort of weird exceptions to them, they also grant Symmetra weapon charge preemptively giving her yet another tool on attack
-Photon Barrier is now moderately stackable, and will not leave the fight nearly as much as it used to, but it’s HP is far lower so it will not be any replacement for tank barriers
-Sentry turrets are available more often, and feel like a threat to the enemies more often as well due to the increased damage.
-The scaling in Symmetra’s damage will leave her with roughly the same amount of overall damage output across her abilities while also fixing several problems such as her weapon feeling useless against flankers, her sentries feeling underwhelming when not in big clusters, and her energy orb only being useful after a VERY slow charge sequence
-Ultimates HP increase coupled with the sentry DPS increase allow Symmetra to more often disengage from her ult and help her team in a fight
-Shield Generator increased range will help her greatly on extremely large payload maps, and KOTH maps

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Photon barrier should work like Moira’s Biotic Orbs: slows down when close to allies, but speeds up when no ally is nearby. Maybe change the shape to help with this too.

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The problem with this is that heroes would walk faster than the shield, making following it effectively feel awkward

I saw someone post on the old mega thread an idea where Sym could self teleport, like reapers shadow step. personally I’d love this idea

I’m certain their could be ideas that could work around the awkwardness. Maybe allow the Barrier to actually tether to someone as a form of protection? Like how Beta Bastion was until it is destroyed.

Another option could be that if the Photon Barrier were shaped akin to Winstons bubble, it might provide 3D protection, making the tethering less awkward.

Hey all glad this thread is back! ^^

Just going to give my suggestion again from the old one. Along with allies being able to see her ults through walls, it would be cool if symmetra could place her ults on walls or ceilings. The deployment would of course have a tad more range. I think this would give us more creative hiding spots for our ultimates and hopefully longer survivability on them!

Looking forward to reading through this thread again!

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I still think that moving sentry turrets to alternate weapon and giving her shields is my favorite idea. It helps fortify the frontline while she fortifys the backline (with turrets).

I’ve kind of refined it:

So, to make this mechanic unique and not Moira-esque or reminiscent of a healer, here is the first option for it.

The first is an “Ammo-recharge” feature (doomfist).
(google photon shield since new forums won’t let me link the image :roll_eyes: )
Notice that Symmetra’s old photon shield button icon is different than photon barrier’s.

They can reuse this icon after resizing it, and use it in a similar interface to Zenyatta’s discord orb bar. So line this icon up on the righthand side of her interface to represent her “ammo” for her shielding mechanic, which will then be able to refill on it’s own, similar to doomfist or bastions healing mechanic.

The animation is also reusable, but just needs to be fed into a loop. For any Symmetra players who are not familiar with the old ability, here is the example animation. (Search Youtube for photon shield to observe the old play overwatch example video, it’s such a pretty animation gone to waste. New forums kind of messing me up here :cry: )

The stats would be 40-50 shields fed into the targeted friendly hero, which will then decay at the rate the balancing team deems fair.

I feel like this would help with her high cooldown abilities and the clunkiness of her kit. Reducing sentries and photon barrier would help in some circumstances, but like Hoshizora said, it’s not her powerlevel in combat but just that her powerlevel fluctuates significantly against team comps, moreso than every other hero.

I like this idea because it’s a small, dva level rework that doesn’t dramatically change her, and is a friendly nod to players like myself who fell in love with her for her shielding mechanic.

Maybe I’m oldschool -
angrily waves hands :raising_hand_man: “Back in my day!!..”

  • but I really feel like that ability was a missed opportunity.
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Thank Jeff Kaplaninstein this was revived
EX SYMETTRA MAINS AND SOMEHOW SURVIVING SYM MAINS ASSEMBLE!!

It’s kinda interesting, this actually shows a difference between us I think
I didn’t start playing Overwatch until sometime after the rework, I’m not sure what season it was because I played solely quickplay until about level 100…

But I really don’t want something like this. I look at old Symmetra videos on youtube, and her design just doesn’t appeal to me like her reworked kit does. modern Symmetra is the Symmetra that I fell in love with.

I don’t want Symmetra to have any application abilities.
She obviously suffers from not being team-centric enough right now, but I believe that’s because her abilities have poor design compensation (Ult can’t be seen by allies, Photon barrier is too small and on too long of a cooldown to be used by the team without preemptive coordination)

But in terms of her kit, I absolutely love the Symmetra we have right now. I think this is probably why I more than anyone else here want number adjustments more than actual new abilities.

I haven’t experienced Symmetra going through a major change, and I don’t want her to.

Either way, I will always defend the existence of PB and SG. Arguably all of her abilities have issues, but I love the Barrier and Shield Gen. if anything gets replaced or reworked I want it to be Energy Orbs because they are by far the most frustrating ability to use to me

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