I’m pretty sure I posted in that thread.
So, on the subject of double barrier…
I was just playing my one daily tank game to get a box. I started with an Orisa on my team so I went Sigma (nothing will save Orisa, but Sigma is the least bad option). We got badly bullied by the other team’s Rein Zarya all game (despite the Orisa being quite good) until I managed to convince the Orisa to switch to Zarya (they wouldn’t play Rein). I turned the game around on Rein, despite playing him like garbage (I can’t play Rein well and have zero desire to learn as I hate the hero completely.)
This is literally what every game is like now.
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You should try Orisa rein. It works better than expected.
Unless they have symmetra, then one of y’all needs to play monkey.
Then the other tank immediately switches off Rein to Hammond or D.va
Hammond yes. Dva oof.
MonkeyBall is dangerously underrated (and a staple of Xbox dive)
On attack maybe, on Defence tho?
The game is too limited in the number of tanks and the viability of those tanks (you pretty much need Rein).
Main tanks are also limited in play-style and most don’t find shields particularly engaging. The popularity of off-tank is due to those tanks offering more diverse playstyles over main. However, off-tank isn’t viable without a main tank, so more often than not, you’ll get two off-tanks as people don’t want to play main barrier. Off-tanks feel somewhat like fat dps too, so you’ll often get dps players who don’t usually tank playing them to avoid the queues. I mean, it’s good for tanks to be attractive to dps, but this means you’ll see stuff like Hog going on bizarre flanks and getting burned down, and alot of double off-tank (which generally means losing). They need a way to make main tank engaging too.
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That is not a good idea. Just like you complain about say, Reinhart, other complained about Orisa or Sigma or Dva or whatever. There is always going to be a meta that annoys people and there is nothing that can be done to change that.
Yeah but people complain more/louder about every other tank. I want to change them so that people will accept a strong Orisa that can compete with Rein.
I disagree, it’s basically the same.
Well Rein has a priveleged position in the game balance where he’s not made trash constantly.
Basically I just want them to do something so there’s more than one viable tank and nobody thinks that the game is broken because of it. I don’t care if they have to completely rework every other tank at this point. I don’t even care if they have to remove them for a while, all the existence of the other trash tanks does is force losses on me at this point.
I’ve worked it plenty of times, especially on King’s row, Paris B, and temple of Anubis B. It’s less effective on point A defenses because you’re giving up barrier strength in exchange for mobility, hard cc, piledriver+leap combos, and disruption. There’s also a certain “wtf” factor involved and you can use the confusion to your advantage.
Mind you, I’m typically high diamond tank and my monkey friend is mid masters.
It is not a comp for the faint of heart, and requires a lot of interceptor plays to be made in order to remain effective.
Basically I either jump the backline, bowl them into my team before they can properly position to make a play, roll into dps to throw off their aim and force out cooldowns, or knock around tank for free damage. It works for as long as you can maintain the pressure.
Minefield works great for denying pathing, too. Imagine hard committing to a far right push on Paris B attack only to be met with a minefield and forced fight in the purple room before your team can make it to the objective. You either take the scrappy fight, commit resources to the minefield, or go another route. Either way, if you can make it to the point you’re either alone or arriving in bad shape in that scenario.
Sombra + Mei remains the hard counter to this tank pair.
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I think a big issue is that the game needs more off-tank heroes. Off-tanks provide peel and brawling capabilities, but their defensive abilities don’t stall out and overwhelm the opposing sides dps capabilities like double barrier. We really only have the 3 that the game launched with, which means that compositional variance is very limited. This is further exacerbated by how each off-tank synergizes well with only certain main tanks.
D.Va used to be versatile enough to run with any main tank, which did create a lot more variance than what we have now. The way D.Va used to be usable with almost any tank should be the goal with off-tanks, as well as releasing a few more.
Number one stop listening to DPS players, particularly high-level DPS players who whine about “muh KDR…” and projecting how they’re actually not very good and can’t kill anything.
Tanks are supposed to be, well, tanky. They shouldn’t die in 1 second of focus fire or be punching bags. They need to be able to actually do their jobs.
Part of that is TTK is too low. Part of that is tanks’ kits have been gutted because barriers or other protective abilities have been deemed “unfun”. If we had a balance team that knew how to use a scalpel instead of a butcher knife, and a playerbase that wants each role to be effective in its own right, things would be better, but alas.
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Why would you go about it like that? That’s essentially what happened, already.
This is silly but if you want to do something drastic: Remove Reinhardt. Remove Zarya. Remove all barriers! Balance the game in their absence.
If they did that then I think everything from Map design to Supportive abilities would be changed. The game would be balanced to fill the hole of having a pocket wall to plop out on whim.
- Maps could have more natural cover or barriers could just be a part of the field.
- Supports wouldn’t need to be married to their tank’s butts and probably heal from range more.
- Flankers could actually “flank” rather than “dive” because they’d have more paths to explore and actual backline supports to attack.
Teach players how to play with a Wrecking ball or any other tank, first.
Then you bring these barrier heroes back in. One by one. Doing it in reverse won’t teach us anything new. 
(I would have loved to see Reinhardt added in 2020! New Hero: Has the best barrier in the game! Giant, lore filled hero with connections to Torb/Brigitte/everyone! Unique “melee hero” with a heck of an ult. )