Mass Res Will Return | 10 Reasons Why

Yeah

Mercy feels horrible right now and sometimes I’m scared to have one on my tier (Master) unless we play perfectly around our Mercy with Phara or dive comp.

The only positive thing about bringing Mercy to the worst healer/support in the game that now we can expect cool buffs or rework on PTR soon or later.

Mercy shouldn’t be an introduction character anymore this game is almost 3 years old.

I say this because my most loved/played character who is the only reason I play this game was extremely boring (Dm.Bot ) and Overpowered now after all buff-nerfs-buff-nerf-nerf-buffs etc feels like a high skill character who can do many things and fill in comps without being broken or OP.

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Alright, I updated it :slight_smile:
My initial thought was right, but I cleared up the mechanics around it.

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I haven’t played Mercy in 2 seasons, and I’m starting to not care. Moria is fun and effective. It’s sad how they balance some characters and leave them the way they are.

I still visit the bastion thread to see how they are doing.

People in this forum should stop hating on X character the more viable characters we have the more diverse comp we can play.

I mean if we look at season 12, what is meta now? I play this game every day and watch a lot of pro players and haven’t figure it yet.

We are playing standard Reinhart-Zarya - Dive comp - Hybrid Dive comp - Roadhog/Orisa and so on.

Sadly Bastion to be like a normal pick like Mcree/S76/Phara etc needs a rework his core design is annoying to deal because requires a team playing around him every single game.

I don’t think having niche characters or characters that are only picked at certain ends of the skill spectrum is a problem.

I think if there were:

  1. More characters to provide greater variety at all levels of play, pick rates would spread out more.
  2. More maps that compliment niche characters some more. Like, I get that maps need to be balanced but perhaps having something that can suit niche characters on both sides will see pick rates rise.

But you know, just my opinions on the matter. I think the lack of diversity is what causes a lot of hate.

I also think, characters will always receive hate but as long as they are balanced fairly, then who cares about the haters. It is never fun playing against people who are good at their characters. Just as playing against ults isn’t normally any fun either. People just want to get salty because they don’t pay enough attention to deal with these things.

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An ultimate should have more impact than an ability and that goes for anyone. So rez doesn’t belong in an ability slot. Maybe a new ability that involves her staff to replace it. Idk

He likes hotdogs and burritos. Don’t believe me? Fight me.

People in this forum should stop hating on X character the more viable characters we have the more diverse comp we can play.

You do realize this is the most diverse ever meta since the game launch? Mercy being crap doesn’t mean the rest aren’t balanced. In fact, it was necessary for Mercy to go down to make room for others. Was it the right way? I’d argue not really, but what she needs now is a little push ot make up to par again, not something so huge it’ll risk breaking the game again like 2.0 did. And 1.0 isn’t the answer. That crap is broken by design.

Thank you for your effort :slight_smile: Sorry if I made you feel obligated.

The two state down system offers a lot in these areas.

When it comes to OW, and the lack of such a system, the ability to rez from death seems to take on a different representation.

In a lot of ways I appreciate the ability to reverse death and also the mind games involved in such a thing. It seems terribly difficult, outside of say a 2 stage death system, to balance though.

I like how the singular rez interacts with the game, as just the initial pick doesn’t necessarily mean a roll. Whereas the invuln version of Mass Rez was, at the highest levels of play, used simply as a singular rez in a lot of ways.

What I know is the devs don’t want a type of mechanic that basically encourages a dedicated healer to allow someone to die to maximize the rez mechanic. In that sense, the 1:1 approach seems sound. I just think the current 1:1 mechanic, that is Rez on E, is a bit problematic in and of itself.

Perhaps we can make that rez gain its value via ult, and perhaps replace rez on E.

I wish people would discuss the more nuanced in between instead of just advocating for mass rez because it seemed fun. I see a lot of people say Mass Rez provided mind games and such that they enjoyed.

I can tell you that I did not enjoy being on the recieving end of those mind games. I didn’t like so much of the engagement team fight strategy revolving around Mercy and the kill order she falls in. However, I do truly appreciate the depth it provided and want more of that for Mercy’s kit.

It’s so much more complex than many around here seem to realize or admit. As at this time, I think many realize the complexity, but refuse to admit it and instead argue the talking points that support their agenda. I wish we could advance the discussion beyond what it was a year ago.

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I think her mind games were great, but I think the no LOS made the kill order harder to complete, especially when Mercy’s were climbing on 30% win rate because of SR bug.

I think going back to Mass Rez with adjustments to make it feel fair would be a good thing. I mean, yeah it was used for a tempo rez at higher ranks but it isn’t as if this is invaluable.

Mass Rez with no line of sight and no cast time, with the SR bugs made hide and rez prominent which made killing her first difficult but in many cases, this sabotaged her own team and not her.

Mass Rez with changes would be nice to try, but like perhaps putting all the changes characters have under gone as accessible settings in custom games that can be finely tweaked, including playing with things like LoS and cast times, so that the community can test all the thoughts of balance they have.

I would happily lose all forms of Rez however, for something fun and just a little bit impactful, with all the mind games and risk and adrenaline that I felt with Mass Rez. I love Mercy’s reliability because I love to help a team but I don’t like letting them down, this is why Mercy was my favourite support. When I couldn’t sustain them, I liked that her healing was a middle ground between main and off support so it allowed her to have a simultaneously strong and weak ult depending on the situation she used it in could help or hinder her team. I always thought it was unfair that she could do it behind a wall but I never often did it behind a wall anyway. I also believed that no cast time and invulnerability was a little bit shady.

I never expected to ever reach high ranks with Mercy, I was hoping to perhaps reach platinum at most honestly. Even if I stagnated there with her and moved on to another support at times if I intended to learn and climb higher. After the rework, I climbed for a bit but I think the issue was that, so did so many other Mercy’s and after so many changes, I have reached a point where I am no longer climbing and it is a bit disappointing but, it is what it is.

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How I feel is that… Let’s be honest… Blizzard hasn’t had the greatest track record when it comes to LOS checks and such.

I am afraid that, in this current state of the game, etc, that trying to shoehorn some version of Mass Rez into her kit could very easily make her pretty much worthless outside of Bronze -> Plat. Especially with the LOS, cast time, lack of invlun, etc conditions that many advocate for.

Now we can say that’s fine, like Mercy shouldnt be viable in higher tiers. But I, personally, ideally, would like her to have some measure of viability and representation in higher tiers, and I feel like if she is depedent on Mass Rez then that can’t ever be the case. Numerical advantage is so important.

I also like the ability for the swing potential and significance of the first initial pick being potentially mitigated. Prior to the Mercy rework, pro play in a lot of ways was the moment one team got a pick the dive started. Mercy rework did a lot to temper that.

I want Mercy viable and ideal in some compositiions at higher tiers. I don’t think she can achieve that with Mass Rez.

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As a Mercy main, I STOPPED reading HERE. Mass Rez never was respected, never gave glory and never got impact.

Perhaps if they better designed the E Rez, and gave her a proper ultimate, this would be okay.
But they need to design these to suit her and that is hard.

I feel as if Resurrect needs to be earned if it is going to be casted after people die and needs to be pre-casted if it going to be on a cool-down.

Trying to save as many lives as possible (or optimal in the case of in game circumstances) seems very Mercy and I can see why they went with Mass Rez, it went nicely with her kit and character but with proper balance changes would have been better for most people.

I think E-Rez needs to be a pre-cast, like I think this person is going to die, I will place this on them and if they die they will come back. However, is it worth it if they don’t come back closer to the team, if they revive out there, they die or alternatively the enemy team might delay a kill to prevent the revive. It leaves a lot more down to pre-medititating a situation, which bodes well for higher ranked play and would possibly give Mercy players another character to play. And hopefully the healing style would be unique and feel more in line with have an E-Rez. Perhaps an E-Rez like this would allow for a lower healing rate, like 50 hp/s but with a special burst heal or damage mitigation ability to go with the E -Rez in a more reliable way.

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It’s also hard because like… what is a “proper” ultimate? What is a “better designed” E Rez? I can ask 30 people these questions, and potentially get 30 different answers.

Yo I love the idea of precast, preemptive, in a similar way as to how Zarya bubbles counter CC… I have to keep in mind tho, devs seem to really want to keep Mercy simple and reliable, consistent, and entry level hero. I don’t want that, I’d love Mercy acting more like Zarya in a lot of ways, I LOVE ZARYA, but… Other people don’t.

A lot of people try to act like their particular position or perspective is in some way the correct one when it comes to this Mercy stuff. They think that others should compromise for them, while refusing to compromise on the manifestation of their ideal of Mercy themselves.

Hypocrisy, like some I have had to deal with in this thread.

I agree with all of this. While I can’t say how well it will work for the game or if its right or wrong or whatever. I think this is a beautiful and open way of considering and approaching Rez and Mercy as a whole. I WISH MORE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WOULD BE LIKE YOU.

I’d love Rez on E to be a sort of preemptive or resource based mechanic. I’d love Valk to be completely reworked, it was built with a 20s duration due to the initial Rez refresh and CD reduction. That’s all been removed. I think many would like it more if we exchanged duration for power. Boost the raw numbers, reduce the duration.

Regardless, I think the general game environment, dev sentiment, public sentiment, is one which does not really want a Mass Rez. And it’s hard to say if Mass Rez would work in current meta.

I want Mercy viable, in all levels, and fun, for as many people as possible though. Don’t get me wrong. I love playing her. I am getting very impatient with how narrow minded some people on this forum have become when it comes to discussing Mercy though…

You though… Exactly what this forum needs. Thank you so much for our exchange tonight. <3.

Here’s an idea of a rough draft of Grace, now that I’m in the zone with this:

Grace - Support
Grace was one of Mercy’s colleges, and her own branch in the research and advancement sector of preventative-medicine, using state-of-the-art electro-therapy technology. Now, she joins her in helping those in need. Her medical class wears the Vejovis suit, which allows them to be a highly mobile ground team that compliments the Valkyrie medical crew in buffering the number of casualties during the omnic crisis. Now, the she joins forces with Mercy in response to the call to continue her expertise.

Designer Notes: Dark wavy hair, brown eyes
Race: Roman/Greek

200 health, 50 shield

Primary weapon: Asclepius Rod - A shortened rod which specializes in close and long range combat. Based on Rod of Asclepius in Greek mythology.

LMB - Asclepius Bolt (Ammo | 6 Diodes): Shoots a small medical diode that emits a bolt of electricity. This diode attaches to a team mate, and arcs energy between allies nearby, healing them. The diode can also attach to enemies and jam all healing technology of any enemy ally it’s electric arcs touch, cutting their rate of healing by half. Diodes have 20 hp and can be destroyed by movement or quick melee. 20 damage per second, 3m AOE and 50% healing reduction on enemies once hit / 30hp/s and 3m AOE on allies once hit. Ally-attached diodes cannot effect enemies, and vice versa

RMB - Asclepius Tether: Shoots a 10m cable that can give Grace and her team mates up to 105 barriers while tethered, or damages enemies at 35 dmg/s. Extends to 20m once attached. Breaks when not in LOS and depletes barriers as well.

E ability - Epione: Grace thrusts her Asclepius Rod into the ground, creating a 5-second 5m electrical barrier around herself that repels incoming forces such as charges, stuns, and status-effect abilities such as anti-heal, sleep, bombs, etc.

Ultimate - Vejovis’ Grace (10 seconds): Grace’s Vejovis suit is powered up, enhancing her abilities. Asclepius Bolt now gives connected allies the “Downed” effect when their health is 0, requiring a killing blow in order to respawn. Downed allies have enhanced healing capabilities. They can be resurrected instantly, receive 50% faster healing by team mates, and a 6m AOE effect. Unlike normal diodes, arcs emitting from Vejovis diode shots attached to an ally can also hit enemies if nearby. Grace receives twice the movement speed as well. Epione is doubled to 10m and Asclepius Tether extends to 40m while doing 60 dmg/s or up to 210 barriers for allies. Asclepius Rod can shoot two diodes at once in this state.

Developers Notes: While Grace is intended to be a compliment to Mercy’s abilities as a support, there are other abilities we feel she can use as well that compliment her other team mates as well. With Asclepius Teather there’s many opportunities to help tank out focus fire in the back lines or while pocketing a tank, while Asclepius Bolt can be used for flankers up in front. Her ultimate is also intended to synergize in tandem with other support ults such as Mercy’s Valkyrie / Mass Ressurection abilities, cover Zen or Lucio with as they goes for their Sound barrier or Transcendence, supplement barriers with Brigitte’s armor in Rally or assist Ana’s Nano-boost with a Downed effect, which really makes the target great for stalling a point under focus fire or going all out. All of this will make Grace a versatile hero that can be used both offensively or defensively, where the time calls for it.

Let me know what you guys think (as this will probably go into the abyss of posts). Either way, with that out of the way, now I finally I can get some sleep! :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

Mercy is always going to be a touchy subject.
She has a huge fan base that just wants to have fun at the end of the day and most of us remember having fun on Mass Rez, regardless of its weakness. We also remember fun with early E-Rez with Valk altogether but we knew it was far too strong. We’d rather have the thing that made people consider our character weak, when we made it work for us and had fun.

I believe Valkyrie takes away Mercy’s weaknesses and what makes people show skill on her.
I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t believe Valkyrie is the right choice because what restricts her is also what made her be allowed to be so good at what she did.
Reliant on her team for movement, sacrificing attacking on her own, only being single target. A lot of this allowed her to be reliable and dictated that she sort of gave up enough to warrant trying to give people a second chance.

I always felt if resurrect couldn’t work, that Mercy could hand out invulnerabilities, like a Zarya bubble without the increasing anything. Just stops them taking damage and can give her time to heal them. I always thought it was a reasonable trade off to combine with maybe 55hp/s.

Personally I would love to see another hero with a rez mechanic. Having the two different styles of rez in the game, having buffs and debuffs and invulnerabilities to give time for healing and having things like healing turrets, etc. Is all different kinds of freshness I felt the support roster could use to actually give some varity in the game.

I don’t think anyone can and I believe we all need to be honest with this a lot more.
I don’t think anyone has all the answers and I think we all have to look at the history of games that have come before.
I think our closest examples are if TF2 had a baby with a MOBA. I think we need to see what has worked for them and what hasn’t and see what is transferable and what is not. I am always someone who is hungry for more, I play the crap out of Rainbow 6 Siege and while they don’t release a lot of characters, they release more than Overwatch does in a year. They always introduce characters on the PTR and let the PTR decide the balance changes and bug fixes in advance so once released into the game, they don’t dominate excessively, but they still hold a place in shaking up the Meta, but they also help in taking new approaches to situations, but they also create characters designed to counter. Like, you can destroy surfaces but there is talk of them creating a character that will fix the holes that people have made, which counters heavily a huge aspect of breaching characters in the game which have never really had a counter before and I think this is a good thing to have, to counter that which you have just created.

Like, if OW released a debuffing character that could slow your teams rate of fire or damage or slowed them or CC’ed them or stopped them from healing, they would be forced to release someone who could cleanse things and different forms of cleanses.
It is a cycle that will eventually balance itself out enough that balance changes that don’t occur with a sledgehammer will be the better option.
They will always have to sledgehammer or the opposite to balance out characters who don’t have counters or the counters of said characters do not have counters themselves so buffing them would mean making them too much better. Just rambles Idk, I think it is time I take a break now XD

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:wink: Take your time. <3.

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Okay, I fixed it :rofl:
It came out longer then expected.

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Yeah… None of these were actual reasons for your statement. Just reasons why you think they should. Especially number 7, Jeff didn’t leave it vague. He literally said they aren’t reverting her.

This all just comes off as being in denial.

Look, I don’t mind reverting her. I never had an issue with mass Rez but it’s not coming back. I’d expect a single Rez ult though.

Truth lmao xD

This comes down a lot to what I call skill expression imo. The rework, and Valk, does indeed remove a measure of weakness and minimize skill expression. Due to the variable result of Mass Rez there was a degree of expression there. Valk doesn’t offer much in that way.

Many call Valk lackluster, and in a lot of ways Pulse Bomb is too. However, Tracer benefits from a strong kit, and while the ult can be lackluster it still due to its tossed, projectile, etc nature, afford a high level of skill expression. Valk doesn’t.

Fo sho.

I think primarily Valk was designed around the way it manipulated Rez. CD reset, CD reduction, etc. All that was moved away from. Now it’s this long duration and lackluster ult. Considering it doesn’t have to adhere to some CD interval (10 I think it was for Valk 1.0 rez CD), the duration should be reduced and the impact increased. Imho.

The Rez could work in a similar way to the bubble. You place it and if that person dies within 2s or whatever, they are rezzed at full HP with some Iframes.

The ult could act how it does, but reward mindful play via the primary beam target recieving more HPS than the chained targets, etc.

Amen.

I think we should try to kind of keep in mind this addition cycle and such when trying to navigate the nuances of balance. I’m glad you brought it up.

I like a lot of the ideas you mentioned, and I think they apply a lot to the current state of the game and Mercy’s kit design as a whole. It’s given me a lot to think about, and I hope we all keep thinking about these things.

Thanks again for the discussion tonight :slight_smile:

SAMEEEE xD Haha. <3.

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