Nobody I know wants map pools. Overwatches reddit has posts with hundreds of people saying the same. Either post what the technical limitation is or hold a vote to see what the community thinks. In Overwatch 1 I dreaded most of the 2cp maps because I wanted to play payload and point.
Payload is the default game mode of overwatch, then you have point hold then 2 cp and push are a far back last place. You try this every time and you are just incapable of making 2cp and push even and enjoyable.
I can promise you if you take away my favorite maps, I will not play this game. I might even feel the need to message support daily to ask why content I had is no longer available.
Map pools are the reason I deleted my first account in the end and the community gave you some understanding for s1 but no map should ever be removed from rotation unless it has an issue. All maps should have a day / night variant and I should be able to play 10 days without ever seeing the same map twice.
Map pools have the potential to be a decent tool to allow for better controlled variation without pure RNG when the total map pool becomes larger and more varied.
The problem is that seasonal map pools make things too spaced out to enjoy what’s available in game. If they were on a weekly rotation or bi-weekly rotation things could actually work pretty well.
They can easily add a preferred game mode selector or something. The problem is they will mess it up like everything else. Nobody will complain about payload. Nobody wants maps they like removed and the map pool would need to be double the size to even consider it. I am already sick of push maps
Map pools are on of the stupidest ideas in the game. While it shouldn’t be a thing, I can somewhat see why they might have it for competitive. However, there is absolutely NO reason to limit maps in Arcade and Quickplay. It is utter nonsense and stupid to limit content.
It baffles me that we have overall LESS content in this game than Overwatch 1. Sequels are supposed to expend the game, not restrict it.
I really don’t think that’s the solution though. I mean it sounds good on paper, but in practice I think it’ll create more problems than it solves.
CSGO is a good example of something like this where maps (and the mode tied to them) are able to be selected in Comp or in grouped pools in casual.
For casual modes (like QP) the goal is to hop in to modes fast and play asap, so limiting maps based on player input could throw a wrench in that for everyone.
For Comp the issue with individual map (mode) selection is that there are clearly maps (modes) that are far less favorable and drum up massive wait times just to participate. That also means more popular maps (modes) are easier to access, but at the cost of others being impossible to play rationally.
I get that some maps/modes aren’t “fun” or can be frustrating, but at least for comp that should be par for the course for the challenge that inherently comes with the mode. You’re going to be put into scenarios where you won’t be comfortable in and have to adapt.
Payload is actually my least favorite mode.
I’d much rather play on 2CP if I’m being honest.
Maybe as a hypothetical compromise for QP instead of one map pool, there’s a few map pools to choose from that rotate randomly on a monthly basis, so all maps are in play and are up to the player to participate in the one that entices then the most.
As for Comp there should be one map pool, but rotated out quicker so as not to stagnate the experience.
For further choice, the browser should make a full return maybe even in a matchmaking capacity for players to have a little more agency in their gameplay choice.
Push is bad game design, I don’t blame you. Something needs to be done about it.
Honestly there shouldn’t even be a technical limitation cause OW2’s engine has been proclaimed to be “improved from OW1’s engine” when OW1 had more maps in rotations and worked perfectly
I think your issue is not really a real one. If the entire player base does not enjoy a game type it can go. They have objectively failed to make a compelling game design.
The issue goes deep into the broken matchmaker though because me and my bro Loved to play Paris but it required team work so was hated and rightly got removed. I would be fine with all the maps 2cp coming back into rotation. 2cp was only an issue because they boosted it till it felt like 3/4 games. What they are doing with push exactly pretty much.
In qp we should 100% have a browser and map filter but some maps would never get played.
Or just don’t have em as there’s no need to have which maps show up be restricted….it’s not like the maps are so varied that having a pool of them will make you play the game differently…so all you do by having them is restrict what you can get and make it super reptitive
Or it needs to be changed further to better address the issues with it.
We saw this with 2CP, and we desperately need to see this with Push as well as it’s far more imbalanced than 2CP was at its worst.
Bare in mind, these two modes (and their maps) aren’t the only two that players take objection with, Junkertown is also a hotly contested map despite the mode being well received in general.
To quote you:
So we should seek to rectify to the issue instead of outright removing them.
I’m not sure how you go from the above statement to that. I’m not trying to gas you or anything but there’s got to be some sort of middle ground.
I played 4 rounds of QP Defense Junkertown in a row last night, yes this sort of matchmaking gets very old very quickly. But that’s an issue that can be addressed, and certainly should be. Maybe by prioritizing a different map after getting one frequently, or by bringing back the pass system and allowing players to spend passes they acquire on prioritizing certain modes and maps.
But I don’t think the answer is to allow players to pick maps/modes specifically outright. Having more choice and agency is certainly a good idea, but there should be some limitations.
Which is why it should be relegated to a different mode selector. QP could use some attention, especially in the repeat map department.
But there is enough variation between maps to constitute a specific subset of maps to play on.
Do you approach Junkertown attack the same way you approach Route 66 attack? Eichenwalde has crazy flank potential early on whereas King’s Row is highly restrictive.
tell that to every meta we’ve ever had…the maps are not varied enough to get people to vary gameplay…we’ve seen this now for 6 years…and OWL too since they started doing map pools
the best way to vary gameplay is and always has been to actually balance the game…which is easier said than done
Are we talking about hero based metas that increase in prevalence as the ladder rises, or are we talking about map variation in which the meta and off meta compositions are used?
“We” are seeing different things.
I’ve personally seen plenty of variation and strategies on maps, alongside meta play in Diamond back in OW1. Meta or safe strategies were absolutely the most common, but not common enough that allowed for variation to make a healthy appearance within the gameplay.
Also OWL is going to use meta play styles, and it’s going to be common as it represents the highest tier of play where efficiency is the biggest deciding factor due to everyone competing on the same level of skill. This isn’t proof of much outside of the OWL or professional brackets other than it’s going to happen.
I mean does anyone expect to watch OWL and see oddball strategies take form every other round?
That’s fine, but I’m not talking about varying “gameplay” I’m talking about varying the experience. Gameplay is only part of that. Sometimes limiting factors actually help vary the experience rather than restrict it.
best way to do that is to VARY the experience…put as much in as possible…ADD as much as possible…NEW heroes, NEW maps, NEW game modes…not the opposite
There’s more to the experience than simply hero balance and “stuff”. Come on Baja you’ve been around long enough to realize this.
Adding more is always better, but adding so much in that it renders the additions moot without defined parameters is a problem.
———
You have a bowl of Skittles, and you want a red one, it’s easy to get a handful where you have enough red Skittles to satisfy your cravings.
But now you add in sour Skittles, maybe not your favorite but you’re still getting a few red OG’s every handful or so you go for. The sour mixes things up, but your preference is still in the mix.
But now a curve ball, some monster added M&M’s, now that cherry Skittle you picked out of the handful you got is actually a red candy coated chocolate. It’s getting harder to find what you prefer.
What’s this? Now someone added Chewy Sprees and Nerds to the bowl, and now you’re panickingly hunched over the candy bowl desperately picking out the red Skittles like some sort of sugar afflicted Gollum while everyone stands off to the side shaking the heads. The mix has become so polluted that finding your choice of candy has become a diluted pipe dream.
———
Look at Destiny, the actual playable content in that game is astoundingly vast, but so much so that it’s almost impossible to jump in and make sense of it due to open and undefined pathing.
Defined parameters need to exist in order for the experience to be playable. Game balance is as important as hero balance.
Map pools are in a bad state right now, but as the game has grown and more maps and modes are added, there needs to be some sort of defined understanding of what you’re getting into by playing the game. Variation is needed, and can be added within the map pool paradigm.
Map pools are terrible game design. The only thing I will give them as having the slightest benefit of the doubt is that some of the maps feel really awkward for 5v5 so hopefully the only reason they are subbing them out is to change them and make them fit. However if Rialto comes back and the only difference is that the time of day changed then there really is no reason not to have all the maps in the game.
Basically the community hated map pools the last time they tried it so unless this is purely to have time to redo the maps then they should not bother with this nonsense right now.
Bingo, it’s the length of time that you have to play within the restrictions of the map variety, not necessarily the principle of restrictions in place.
Variety is the spice of life, but it’s not like dumping all the spices in your pantry on your chicken is going to provide a tasty experience.
or you dont like red skittles…and all you have is a bunch of red skittles…but you like sour ones…and now you have to wait 2 months to have some again
it goes both ways
i suspect that this is part of it…to bring back something that already failed once makes me think theyre covering for something
in their own words:
However, we saw a lot of feedback asking for Map Pools to vary more often than every two months at the start of a competitive season. Some suggested one month, others two weeks, and some even one-week rotation periods. However, if the Map Pool were to rotate more frequently, it would stop providing the competitive season with the “identity” we were going for. In addition, if we change the Map Pool faster, you might not even notice that maps were missing or back from one cycle to the next.
that or some cost cutting issue with having all the maps available with varying times of day…but im no computer expert so i have no idea what kind of strain on their systems that would be…weird things require weird explanations
I’m not in favor of the current map pool rotation standard. 2 months is 2 long, in fact it’s egregiously drawn out for absolutely no reason.
Map Pools and Map Pool changes aren’t a bad idea just because the current method being utilized overextends their practicality and dulls the experience. If they were on a more frequent rotation (depending on the mode in question) or were offered in a “column A or column B” choice, it could keep things fresh while also allowing for more player agency in choosing the experience they would prefer.
I’m not really sure of the “identity” of which they speak of.
If emulating OW1 launch window nostalgia with limited variety is the “identity” they’re going for, then maybe they captured that? Is “Cyberpunk” somehow the identity of the map pool?
I mean it sounds like a neat concept on paper, but in practice I’m getting sick of Junkertown defense.
Well, if the maps are far less favorable, Blizzard should do something about that to make them more favorable. If everyone avoids playing it, you would think that would send a message that it needs a rework. I leave queue every time I get that stupid Canada robot map because its so frustrating to play for 10 mins with little to nothing gained.
I just hope we have a lot less robot in the next set, i’m tired of playing it every other game, and I especially hate playing it in comp.
