Making Torb a viable/non-troll pick without changing what he is and does

So in the recent dev interview about upcoming changes for Torbjorn (google vg247 overwatch-torbjorn-rework), Blizzard sorta kinda admits (finally) that players in general do not consider Torb to be a valid pick as a DPS character or on KotH/Attack (without payload) maps, now that the [Defense] category has been merged with [Attack] into a [Damage] category. So at the core of the upcoming changes for Torb, thats what they want to fix, to make him more viable and a more frequent pick on attack/KotH, with other considerations secondary.

One of those secondary considerations is that there are a number of aspects to Torb that are unique and/or iconic to Torb

His hammer. Turret. Armor packs. Building. Molten Ore.

Changes to make him a more viable pick might cause one or more of these to disappear

While many (most?) of us who pick Torb agree that he could use some improvements, I for one would like to see him become more valuable in the Damage/Attack role he has been merged into WITHOUT change to what is iconic about him

That said, here’s a set of changes (in no particular order) for Torb that I think will do just that (and some of this is ideas expressed in the Interview)

  1. Improve Survivability
    Torb’s hit and crit box are quite large relative to his diminuative stature. Shrink these boxes in proportion to his actual size and he can then move more easily with his attack team because he’s then harder to hit

  2. Less time hammering Turret
    Less time hammering Turret means more time attacking. So let the Turret either self-upgrade over time, or let it initially drop as a Level 2…with hammering needed only for repairs

  3. Improve Turret positioning
    The interview mentions Torb “throwing” his turret a short distance. I’d recommend expanding on that just a bit, allowing Torb to place the turret up a level, on a ledge/catwalk/etc 1 level above

  4. Create incentive for Torb to move away from Turret
    Many Torb players (and I am guilty of this myself) stay with Turret to keep it alive with hammering. This has many negative consequences for Torb’s survivability and also means he isnt staying with his attack team, which in turn contributes heavily to how negatively he is perceived by the player community. So - give the Torb player a reason to move away. Turret gains more shots per second? Turret gains more damage per shot? Turret gains slow self-repair when not shooting? The key here is to have it be good enough to make it a reasonable tactical decision for Torb to either stay/hammer or (preferably, for attack viability) move away to gain these benefits

  5. Make armor packs more impactful.
    I dont think armor packs need to be powered up, per se, 75 armor per pack is fine. Instead:

  • Torb starts with 50 (or 100) scrap, so he can armor himself or another player at the start of a match. Makes him more viable right out of the gate rather than needing some time at the start of the match to get warmed up. A less flexible option on this is to have Torb start with one of his armor packs already applied to him, and this would prevent fighting among the other players on the team over who gets the starting armor pack

  • Allow Torb to be able to put an armor pack on Turret, same as a player

  • Allow a player to have 2 Torb armor packs applied but only allow max armor from these packs to be 100. So a player who already has 75 Torb armor picks up another now has 100 Torb armor. Law of diminishing returns and all. This invites some tactical decision making – ie is it better in a given scenario for two players to have 75 armor or 1 player to have 100?

  • Throwing packs should have a very forgiving targeting AI. If Torb throws remotely near a ally, as long as the ally is not maximally armored, it applies to this ally rather than dropping to the ground. I’d guess at least half of all Torb armor packs that hit the ground never get used meaning they are wasted. If more packs get applied to players, Torb will be seen as a more valuable ally

  1. Limit or eliminate scrap collection time
    Torb players spend a lot of time collecting scrap. This means less time attacking. Either remove scrap and replace with a cooldown based armor pack creation feature, OR let scrap collection occur from a much larger distance away. Of these two - I like the existing scrap collection mechanic and consider it somewhat iconic so I for one would prefer the latter

Let me add that I consider Torbs ultimate Molten Core to be iconic. I therefore hope ( P R A Y ) that it does not get removed or replaced or (worse still) gets watered down and replaces another existing ability like armor packs

----Bottom Line----

Because Torb is so infrequently picked and so reviled by so many, I think all of these changes could be applied to Torb and the player community would overall still consider him to be underpowered. That said, I personally dont think he needs all of the changes above. But all of the above (in any combination) maintain what Torb is and does, and that is important to those of us who do play this character in the here and now, as well as those who follow the Lore/Story of the game

6 Likes

armor packs needs to go. Armor is broken and we already have too much of it with brig

Brigittes armor packs are a more recent addition to the game, and further, they do not operate the same way. I’d additionally point out that in general, Brigitte is considered overpowered whereas Torb is considered underpowered. Which of these two characters then would be better balanced by having armor packs removed?

2 Likes

Reaper

1 Like

That made me laugh, thanks for that -)

Should be allowed to lay multiple level 1 turrents at weaker HP.

I can see the tactical/buff value in that, but I think two turrets strays too far from what he is and does.

Further, there is a lot of storytelling revolving around Torbs affection for “Turret”, ala as if Turret was a single unique individual. A second turret is at odds with this concept

1 Like

No one cares what “storytelling” says. If you go by that then you are a fool and you will never get anything changed.

Untrue.

I care. Many other players care. Blizzard cares - they even have employees who work on nothing but story, which helps keep the game more interesting and ergo drives sales

2 Likes

You literally made up the concept that since Torb likes his turrent he can’t have others. A does not correlate to B according to the “story” and is completely nonsensical. That is what I mean when I state that no one cares about the “story” in the sense of changing characters to fit the meta and you are a fool to think otherwise.

also not true

I didnt write any of the story or background behind Overwatch

In the stories (comics, short videos, etc) Torbjorn is portrayed with one turret.

In fact, he often refers to it as “Turret” like it is a proper name and not a mechanism

I get that you want a powerup for Torb. I want that too.

Our difference appears (to me) to be that you are ok with discarding/sacrificing the lore to get a powerup, and I am saying Torb can (and should) have both

1 Like

What i consider a good Torbjorn for Attack is what Valve did with Engineer. They gave Engineer Gunslinger, which replaces the normal turret with a mini-sentry.

I expanded more on that in this post:

They can change anything BUT NOT Molten Core being removed or his Hammer!

1 Like

I am personally not too interested in making Torb (or any character) like a character in another game.

If I want to play character x from game y, I’d play game y, rather than expecting another game (like Overwatch) to replicate that experience

Well, that’s not how it works. Just look at Mercy and Medic and the similarities between them. Torbjorn and Engineer already had tons of things in common, even more so at the begging of OW. He was literally a copy-pasta you can say.

Also, just because a mechanic is similar to another mechanic from other game does not mean it just of replica of the first in any way.

There is the ironic saying “Every game with a gun is basically the same.”

Kinda sorta hoping for some replies that open discussion on the items in my original post

I play alot of torb and here’s what I suggest. I think torbjorn should be able to do fire damage. His character fits for a fire damage hero. He gun literally shoots molten rivets at people.

I think his Gun should have it’s base damage reduced for both his alt and primary reduced by 10. And instead be given a 3 second dot (fire damage) of 10 per second. Since his projectile speed is one of the slowest, it makes up for the missed shots in between. You could also up it a little like you did with hanzo. Still allow for headshot damage though, but just add the dot on top. The dot can’t stack.

His ult should have a fire aura during it’s duration of also 10 per second and his lvl 3 turret should shoot fire balls instead for more dot damage or keep it the same. Since there’s so many healing auras anyways we need a damage aura to help counter it. It kind of fits thematically too with his daughter in protection and him into damage.

Another idea for his ult is to toss another turret that is separate from his main one but it is instead a high health flame turret. The turret has a small area of range, maybe like a radius of 5m and Targets whoever he is shooting at. This way torb can direct his turret to shoot his intended target. Maybe allow this for his regular turrets too. The flame will pass through multiple people like meis gun and do more damage the closer or longer you are in it. The turret lasts for the duration of the ult even if torb dies and disappears when it is done. Torbsalways has been about area denial, so why not have one where he can toss it into a crowd and have it go ham. This way he can keep his signature “molten core!”

I think just allowing him toss it a certain distance like he tosses his armor pack and auto build where it lands is fine. Simply allowing him to just toss another turret solves the whole carry the turret thing. Instead there could be two types. One that looks like a lvl 1 turret but generates armor packs around it every few seconds and the lvl 2 looking turret does more damage but doesn’t generate armor. Both turrets upgrade to the lvl 3 fire turret during his ult.

Also if they could increase the range of his hammer to at least match the range of his melee, that would be nice too

Well, I was hoping for replies discussing my ideas rather than throwing out new ones, but thanks.

I keep hearing about the fire damage thing. How is fire different in the context of this game from other damage types?

For example, Winston does electrical damage and Mccree does physical/ballistic danage, but I don’t think the damage type matters…x points of damage seems to affect the target the same no matter what type it is

I read your post. From what I read, it mainly talks improving how his kit currently is. I like the whole reduce his head hit box, but that I think it is an obvious one that needs improvement. His turret self heal is cool but blizzard did something like that where you could place his turret on a health pack spawner and the turret would consume it on earlier builds. It was op. The turret should be dispensable. A toss and forget thing like the sentry gun from perfect dark. It should just boost his overall damage but not be too essential unless it’s like an ult but his ult could just toss a full lvl 3 turret instead of having one already up.

Fire damage and other dots differ in the game based on how they distribute the damage. Winston has a dot effect but it effects everyone in an area like how electricity in other games pass to other targets near. The fire damage could be like a slow burn that negates certain things like recovery. Like slow Mercy’s auto heal for a time because of the constant damage from burn or stop a barriers from recharging. It will just depend on how blizzard decides to make it function

Just make the turret have one level which is level 2 and thats it. I think he doesnt need much tweaking.